Cool.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and this is a painting I did I also a painter one I was telling them i'm. A physicist and a painter. So this is indeed in my Cv. Over 50 years of work, or presenting
STFC-RAL-CR21: more or less everything I did in my life.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So I I went from low energy, physics and hydrogen, etc., to work now on on the Nobel Prize.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And, indeed, this is what a picture of an installation! Largest installation.
STFC-RAL-CR21: very low pressure.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the tact forces were ultrafast 100 P. The second detectives for heavy ions. It was an experiment looking for strange matter.
These detectors were in a few 1 million about questions, so somebody either will be happy.
STFC-RAL-CR21: The such a low pressure on the
STFC-RAL-CR21: and I moved to a noble liquid detectors.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the reason is of moving from very low pressure gas to the liquid is that there are very interesting applications that when they reach large sizes like the
STFC-RAL-CR21: X of Zd, and a consulting one.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which is scholar somewhere. And now in the G 3 or so, you you need prominent techniques. Also, I know 3 of physics.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So my top today will be about normal detector concepts that would find potential applications. And there is a reference to a recent paper that I wrote with many references to what exists and with new ideas.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So why Don't, we leave with the tentacles? First of all, they have high density for those who are not, says I mean your Id. They are very short
STFC-RAL-CR21: introduction, so they have high density, high direction, probability, probably very important for the text of their events. For example, they have high scentilation and utilization yield, so you can attack, bus
STFC-RAL-CR21: charged, and the UV photons that scale those you can make volumes which are
STFC-RAL-CR21: quite large, and one of the challenges.
STFC-RAL-CR21: When you detect rare events, you need large volumes. You have high value, purity. Everything has to be very pure in order not to lose electrons by by your absorption.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and they have to be low background devices. Maybe very often you have to go underground, depend on their application, of course.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and they have
STFC-RAL-CR21: to be very sensitive. For example, in that matter one tone of liqu Xenon correct me. You have about one event, right one of them the year but one ton of of of museum.
STFC-RAL-CR21: How are you sorry? How are you? What do they say? Okay, and how you? How do you the detection? You do either charge rebels with always out application
STFC-RAL-CR21: over You do like readout to reading primary circulation and electoral immunosis will come to that.
STFC-RAL-CR21: We've spoken about, ignite your silicon automatic rights and other known technologies. and you can see some of the
you.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So in that matter you have very low deposited energy in the Kb. Range by nutrients. You need very low detection thresholds.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and to be charged notification, of course, either by by avalanche or duplication, or by by by electromagnetism and very efficient sentilation photon record
STFC-RAL-CR21: in this circulation we're calling when you have an interaction gives you a trigger
STFC-RAL-CR21: to the experiment, though people now, and working also, detecting only organization without having the primary information.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And then, of course, they need to have a very good background, radiation, discrimination. And this you can do. My virus technique, whether in liquid or or or you can play with the signals and get this discrimination. No thermal physics.
STFC-RAL-CR21: For example, you have very high charge deposits by muons of the order of
STFC-RAL-CR21: 2 times that to the 4 layers per meter in the in liquid album
STFC-RAL-CR21: they can operate without child multiplication, because they have high-charge deposits, but not implication would would ease the the electronics. There is very good electronics by the way, they relevant a valid kind of company
STFC-RAL-CR21: which is phenomenal. But still, if you want to go, maybe to lower thresholds.
STFC-RAL-CR21: you will need some of education, and this is a challenge.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So for those who are not in the field the 2 types of detectors single face detectors, and you all face detectors in a single phase detector
STFC-RAL-CR21: the deposit. You have an event incoming event
STFC-RAL-CR21: in a large volume of noble liquids and neutrino physics is typically in the liquid album, because you need very, very large volume that it's cheaper than 0,
STFC-RAL-CR21: and yourization electrons along tracks are briefing. In a large volume you have first of all, the photom. I did not give you a time
STFC-RAL-CR21: stamped here P. 0. Then they briefed to a set of meshes recently to Multilayer, perforated.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You see this printed all the circuits.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and with different electrons here, with wires here with different strips on a multi-layer circuits, you can make all the signals, and you can get the 2D
STFC-RAL-CR21: by recording the signals here, and by measuring the time difference between D. 0 and G one, namely, the brief time of the electrons. From the event. You get the cell, the cell coordinates
STFC-RAL-CR21: the the.
STFC-RAL-CR21: for example. I give you here just a table that I picked up from a top recent talk you lead in showing the size of neutrino experiments.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Many of you are aware of, of course, but you see the the sizes of of present experiments
STFC-RAL-CR21: outgoing from from the below 11,000 tons to June.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which would be almost 70,000 70,000tonnes, which is a huge experiment Everybody is is excited about. You can see a picture in one of the I think, prototype detectors
STFC-RAL-CR21: of the of this August of this June, the
STFC-RAL-CR21: experiment and you can see in the prototype some some pictures
STFC-RAL-CR21: of electromagnetic showers running an economic shower, a bronze shower. These are, of course, no photographic pictures, but these are electronic.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and if you recorded signals on wires.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So there are dolphins and detectors which are mostly used for not matter.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Here the situation is different. You have a volume
STFC-RAL-CR21: of a normal liquids, typically a liquid genome, a liquid novel, for example. they exist as well in some experiments like the dark side. And here, when you have an interaction
STFC-RAL-CR21: for a number that we we call it the recording on the on, the on, on creating here
STFC-RAL-CR21: a recall. You have electrons from the recoil.
STFC-RAL-CR21: There is a got a paper on saturated paper phase without the liquid.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and when you have high enough field you create an ecosystem or a secondary circulation. You have a primary circulation system which can be very small about the buyers on top.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the of this give you the the time 0 times, times then.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and when the the electrons reach the
STFC-RAL-CR21: this paper phase and created a from in a sense, they give you a T one, t one a signal. You can see the signals. Here s One is the primary sentination. S 2
STFC-RAL-CR21: is the secondary circulation given by the brief of the electron. So you can see the process. Indeed.
STFC-RAL-CR21: so it. This is an optical door face that you see concept. There are also
STFC-RAL-CR21: other trials which were made where, instead of the electron innocence. You multiply
STFC-RAL-CR21: charges in a, for example, in a lem, or it's a tig gem is a large electromagnetic wire. We call it the thick gas electromagnetifier. It's exactly the same device. You have an electron. This holes, I will explain later, and you create high fields
STFC-RAL-CR21: in the holes, and you multiply the charge, and you detect it electronically instead of
STFC-RAL-CR21: and a good photore. But this failed because it's very difficult to mark it like charges
STFC-RAL-CR21: in the in a in a noble gas, and therefore this was practically even up. I don't know if there are still experiments which are trying
STFC-RAL-CR21: the world this way.
STFC-RAL-CR21: An example of a one of the largest experiments. This is the
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the 780 which I to the top. This has about 8 and a half tones of liquid genome
STFC-RAL-CR21: tent on the east. In China it's for con. They are using a larger one, and now in G 3,
STFC-RAL-CR21: which is, which is 50 dawn, but I have this morning that it should call up to 80 to an even
STFC-RAL-CR21: you can see, even in the world phase experiment. So You can see here one of the one of the readout arrays of for the multipliers, and there is one array on top of the bottom, and people are trying different photo sensors. Now this will be collaboration of even working on the of Cmos
STFC-RAL-CR21: devices and civic and poker multifiers.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So nothing was decided yet for for this device, and the collaboration is called X Orcp and other areas out of it.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So you see these large experiments. You don't know where you're calling Here
STFC-RAL-CR21: there is a paper which appeal: I don't know how many People'
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this this device will be not only for not matter. There are many other physics questions which will be measured here. It will be built in a way that sensitivities
STFC-RAL-CR21: a of the detection. We will reach even the solar and the neutrino, not all here.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So you see that there.
STFC-RAL-CR21: This is indeed what you see Here is the background electronic background
STFC-RAL-CR21: in different experiments from small ones to the larger one that you see it went down by several orders of magnitude to a very careful. a selection of the all the materials and conditions, etc. And and
STFC-RAL-CR21: so the expectation here to be somewhere here close to the and of the top. And you can see here today
STFC-RAL-CR21: if you look at the re-elect on cross-sections. Current experiments are here. and after 20 years the 51
STFC-RAL-CR21: you are expecting to gain less than an order of languages of the 20 years. if that matter exist at all. so why do we need new new new concepts? First of all, in go a phase that he's our problems. One of the main major problem is the
STFC-RAL-CR21: liquid
STFC-RAL-CR21: to gas to vapor interface. You have to extract electrons into from liquid into gas, and you can see the fields of extractions are very high now on their slightly lower. But, for example, in Zen you mean 5 kg per centimeter or so.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and this sometimes causes instabilities. That's what that is electron emission. You've got variation. For example, if you have some vibration, there are some acoustic effects on the on the interface, or if the system is slightly tilted
STFC-RAL-CR21: there, there is that variation here, and this affects directly the signals that you detect by electromagnetic.
If you have situations like that.
STFC-RAL-CR21: The the
STFC-RAL-CR21: electron, in a sense that is emitted here and will vary, vary across the area of the detector, and you will have stabilities. Spontaneous electron emission is really a problem. If you detect very low, a very low.
STFC-RAL-CR21: very, very, very long.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and energy events, if you like.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So
STFC-RAL-CR21: low energy deposits it such devices, the modification.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and, as I said, most of it because of the today most experience
STFC-RAL-CR21: in single face detectors the current limits. There is normal duplication in liquid, but it is good only for large energy. So you cannot take that matter today with such devices. So what we want is a stable, bribery, child multiplication and efficient detection
STFC-RAL-CR21: in both configuration. This is our goal and final goal is to lowering the detection thresholds. Maybe the cost knows
STFC-RAL-CR21: so single phase Dpcs local cops. Okay. that my age I may I I'm allowed to dream. So i'm going to show you some dreams. And, indeed.
STFC-RAL-CR21: what what one of the main reasons for for this kind of
STFC-RAL-CR21: of talks of dreams is to trigger the interest of the younger generation, trying to push them to. To to continue this this fantastic field of detector physics.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So why single things, as I said, to overcome the the interface problem and not on not on the you have only a single phase, the possibility
STFC-RAL-CR21: to work in a face to face
STFC-RAL-CR21: horizontal geometry, namely, for an equal volume.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You have half of the electricity of the Planet's fields are huge. the height that I voted to the right our laws
STFC-RAL-CR21: also. You can have a value of geometry can have, for example, one sensor in the middle, or or naturally, the meal and circles running around.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And then this you cannot go for a singing. The golf and geometry and the new concepts. As I said. a single face AIM
STFC-RAL-CR21: mostly a lower detection threshold.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So I found this slide that you would like very much
STFC-RAL-CR21: and gave it to. I was a 1,006, I think, 2,006,
STFC-RAL-CR21: about an idea of a spherical Nobel liquid detector where electrons drift in a sphere
STFC-RAL-CR21: towards an array of multipliers which is in the sphere. These are the multipliers.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the multipliers are simply sort of needles even within the holes. Here.
STFC-RAL-CR21: No, this was a nice idea.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I don't know what happens to this project. Whether it's it is still like an idea. Sorry you say, like the have. Okay, so so. But you were dreaming early in 2,006, so I liked it very much, and the some things that I will present are
STFC-RAL-CR21: are a bit inspired by that or or cinema. If so. this we are at 2,013, and I had a dream. I really had to drink overnight.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I was that you know your hand is on the I was drinking. Why not?
STFC-RAL-CR21: So? Have charges deposit that, or for us deposited in a liquid.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and we'll take a scale of multipliers coated with cesium. I like photocopoulos, but look at Siju Island is a is a very good ultraviolet for the cattle and boss liquid, armored, and and the liquid in on their meat
STFC-RAL-CR21: in the Uk. If without 128 kilometers liquid. Xenon, that done, at 75. So why not to have, for example, yourization electrons entering into a hole?
STFC-RAL-CR21: And even if you don't have multiplication to excite the liquid.
STFC-RAL-CR21: do I read follows. These photos will eat a photocado. You will get communication. We will get multiple photons out, and you will get more of more photon outs like any.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and maybe here you will have so many photo electrons, and maybe you could even have some child notification. though we knew already
STFC-RAL-CR21: that that that to get charged amplification on on wires. For example, you need very high fields. Okay, this was measured the wires by
STFC-RAL-CR21: upgrade and company. It's very similar numbers to what the Japanese school measured. Already in the early 70 S. There was a famous researcher called Dokin. He is a very big group, and they they did a lot of work trying to to to multiply on wives of their lives.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So from that to me I said, the threshold is 400 kilos per centimeter, and for child notification. Is this
STFC-RAL-CR21: so? And we measured, we measured signals. This the thing worked because I had a dream. I had a student. I was sitting on his head, and he showed me pulses. And then
STFC-RAL-CR21: something was strange because the others appeared.
STFC-RAL-CR21: That's much lower fields, and this was impossible.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So it came to a conclusion that we have electron, in your sense, not
STFC-RAL-CR21: on the on the
STFC-RAL-CR21: not in the liquid, but in a sort of a bubble of bubbles which are trapped somewhere.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we built the whole center by the way. It was a similar conclusion by Lightfoot
STFC-RAL-CR21: in 2,009. They tried to to to multiply electromagnetically with our when we saw signals, but most probably this was also due to.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So where my student came crying, now we have bubbles we should have had
STFC-RAL-CR21: said, Wait, my great, I mean you have bubbles. Maybe you should take advantage of it.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we designed a detector where you have these electrons. It's a perforated electron. We call it a jam or a digging
STFC-RAL-CR21: that's a little multi-pie, or thick on it to my multi-pie over, count of that. You have a bubble which is trapped under it. You form a but not sporadically, but you put heating wires in the liquid.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and then.
STFC-RAL-CR21: when you have electrons coming into the bubble from
STFC-RAL-CR21: to the interface here into the into the gas, or if you have photoelectrons created on top of a photocop of here.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and they breathe through the wall into the gas. You get signals, the ecosystem in this bubble. If you apply your I electric fields. So the tig jam
STFC-RAL-CR21: is is this one, you see, as disgust or or a gam? It's in the night with holes.
STFC-RAL-CR21: It can be a few tens of a 1 million meters thick.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and and you you can put apply quite high electric field across these electrodes and also across the bubble, and you get the the detector that in principle that takes boss.
STFC-RAL-CR21: the X youunization electrons and circulation photos in a single element without the need of a
STFC-RAL-CR21: get it? Can I get the movie. Now I will show you why you form a bubble with the wire.
STFC-RAL-CR21: But so pants. Oh.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I think that I should do it differently. Okay.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So what you see here is a photograph below. You have some heating wires here, and you have the thick gem electrode. So you're looking for the top. But
STFC-RAL-CR21: this this is reversed because the camera was looking at the bottom. So you have plenty of little bottles, and then they call this into a bubble. You see.
STFC-RAL-CR21: this is the bottle which is glory and covering finally the whole surface.
Yeah.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this is not black magic. You create such a battle, and you can work for weeks
STFC-RAL-CR21: if you knock your your system or you modify the pressure. The bottle immediately explodes. Then you heat up the wires, and you create a new bubble and you can keep it
STFC-RAL-CR21: for for very long. Now, okay, we can go back to the, to the presentation.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Yeah.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So so this worked, and then we thought that we had a more precise control of the liquid to gas interface because you put
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the electron which separates them this time, then you have a bubble which doesn't move you to the England or the bundle. If not, we will remain about those. So we hoped for better energy resolution.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and potentially better. As to to s one, this is background rejection. I go to go into that discrimination
STFC-RAL-CR21: compared to a regular dual face
to detectors.
STFC-RAL-CR21: so you can see typical waveforms in such an event. We put the photo multiplier. Here we see the primary circulation signal this one. When you have when you have the interaction. This is where alpha particles. The signal is very small, because we detect only the line going through the holes.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Get to the bottom of the
STFC-RAL-CR21: then we get the S one prime. This is the this is our the photons which are heating the photocatos. and they create a photo electron, which is drift into the bubble.
STFC-RAL-CR21: giving the the light signal, and S 2 is due to the electrons coming into the hole and creating light in the bottle, and the typical light yield. This we were received in the de Factos is of the order of 400 photons per electron or 4, by
STFC-RAL-CR21: which is, which is not that. But
STFC-RAL-CR21: we measured resolution for boss or for the as well for the electrons and for the photo and the photons. It's not very good.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I mean the this
STFC-RAL-CR21: ere.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we came to the conclusion that we might have a problem of traversing with the electrons and interface
STFC-RAL-CR21: in between the liquid and the and the gas.
STFC-RAL-CR21: so we need even some some experiments.
STFC-RAL-CR21: We went. We built a model in the I'm not talking about just briefly where we put the liquids
STFC-RAL-CR21: in the same situation, like we were floating
STFC-RAL-CR21: an electron on top of a of the liquid and looking at the interface of this electron using microcity. we will see how the interface varies. According to the electric field that you apply
STFC-RAL-CR21: across the electro. This was quite an amazing story, but
STFC-RAL-CR21: nothing really scientific about it. So just an observation.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Give you an array of of silicon photo multipliers
STFC-RAL-CR21: immersed in the liquid. And you look at your events. Okay.
STFC-RAL-CR21: we had here an aboriginal source. Which was it? Which was a disc
STFC-RAL-CR21: which was sorry, deposited in in a sort of of a ring.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Okay, this is a picture of a of the Fuji play.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and this is a reproduction of what we got here. In this detector we reach resolutions of reconstructural resolution of the order of the and which is, which is not bad. Everything is very useful, but it's not bad.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and this is the result that you got.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So what are the highlights? This This study was was stopped
STFC-RAL-CR21: because we didn't manage to get large enough photo detection efficiencies, probably because of bad connection of the electrons
STFC-RAL-CR21: lightly, the 400 photons per elect on er 4 or 5, which is nice. And again here that that energy resolution was not good enough. By the way, it was straight at the same in in the good, algorithm, and also importantly for double, but due to the lower front of use and the resolutions will work.
STFC-RAL-CR21: These are simulations
STFC-RAL-CR21: in case we get the expected pede or 15%, which normally we should.
STFC-RAL-CR21: That, compared to the this is
STFC-RAL-CR21: almost 6 years old, the
STFC-RAL-CR21: story. But if you take the Darwin experiment, a 50 tonne experiment with it with the real size of 2.6 meter diameter and in height.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and compared to a conventional detector using the Lhm. And the bottom, we would expect a louder, high, light use detective intentions. But again, we are far away from this number, so we cannot claim that this will be the right thing.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So
we went to something else. Which is it's also the previous one. I call it the
STFC-RAL-CR21: a local, you know, a localized dual phase in a single phase. Liquid. Yeah. the bottom.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So Here' the story of of real single phase. and people were working since years in trying to multiply charges.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the decks detect them with very thin wires in in a liquid. Okay in the gas. It's very easy. Multi-wire proportional chambers and others. They work perfectly in gas but in liquid. You have to apply these super high fields.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which makes it more difficult.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So the first one that I know in the field are from 74 from Berkeley, the coup of Lorenzo, and there was a Japanese group, Masuda and Company, then in the
for you.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and recently there is a group that joined the race. They go from final University of
STFC-RAL-CR21: of a what is that? Much of them? And so so far, I mean, they didn't reach a conclusive results. The in-rich ideas.
STFC-RAL-CR21: The problem is that If you want to reach high gains.
you can either have very, very thin wires, really a few micron wires.
STFC-RAL-CR21: or you have to apply extremely high fields. I'm talking about several tens of kilovolts
STFC-RAL-CR21: on top of this wires. Now what happens with wires?
STFC-RAL-CR21: What will not a large array, if you apply high potentials, the wires. If the tension is not perfectly right, they stride, they start stuttering.
STFC-RAL-CR21: One goes up, one goes down.
STFC-RAL-CR21: It's very difficult to to eat. The same tension to the wires, and they're sagging. If you have a 3 metre long wire it's not Well, the tension Also, if you're sagging.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this is this might be a problem. Another problem is shadowing the electromagnetence. Imagine, if you have an electron drifting here and approaching the wire and making electrom innocence, the wild will shape
STFC-RAL-CR21: quite a lot of the emitted lie that he would like to detect you on top with for the services. So we proposed another possible solution.
STFC-RAL-CR21: that of using microstructures like the other's, microscopes are slightly different, and, for example, using microscope plates.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I don't know how many of you are aware of Microsoft, but I will explain in in a moment. These are very, very thin strips, but
STFC-RAL-CR21: printed on top of a of a substrate.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now, if you want to detect light.
STFC-RAL-CR21: This photo sense of this subsequent has to be transparent to to ultraviolet life.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the streets that will be transparent to Lutra will draw a violent life. But if you put the strips and even a layer on top here.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which are a few, a
STFC-RAL-CR21: if you don't know me, a thick of chrome or or nickel, which is feasible, then 50 more or 50% of the light will go through to the photosens. So so, indeed, the the problem of shadowing is is much reduced.
STFC-RAL-CR21: It's partial attenuation. But it should work.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now. Would this work? They were attacked by Polycarpo in Quebec, and
STFC-RAL-CR21: only 95, and they manage to measure a game of 10
STFC-RAL-CR21: in liquid xenon on the micro street plate. They didn't measure the light at that time. They wanted to measure just the charge.
STFC-RAL-CR21: But this was really the first more demonstrating that one could get some amplification on strips. I think the streets were 8 microns.
My! From the what.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So
STFC-RAL-CR21: we want to devise other medals
STFC-RAL-CR21: in order to detect both s 2 and s one, for this is this would detect only the as to the air from
STFC-RAL-CR21: okay, our goal is to detect both electrons. And so here I will just briefly explain what time.
STFC-RAL-CR21: what kind of of multipliers we could we could use for those who are also familiar with it. So, for example, I discuss the micro-street plagues just in the previous slide.
STFC-RAL-CR21: These are very thin out of streets
STFC-RAL-CR21: located between broader Cattle Street. This was for Gaza vectors.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and you will see that we go for the destruction. But this is an existing one in the next. drifting towards the street. and count as a very high potential here.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And you get charge multiplication in a gas, also with a mission of of. If you're in a liquid, most probably you will get only photos, maybe some small amplification
STFC-RAL-CR21: that we developed at least one.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And here that is the principle you get, and you put a potential across these electrons, which is metalized in more spaces. If you have an electron briefing towards a hole in a gas. It will create an avalanche
STFC-RAL-CR21: in the in a.
STFC-RAL-CR21: in a liquid. You maybe to make some electrical innocence, and you detect the photons.
STFC-RAL-CR21: If you have an education. Of course. if these are other kinds of the electrons micro-hole is strip lights develop it.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Collaboration with our group, you call up the same device that feels differently.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And here you have thin out of strips
STFC-RAL-CR21: which multiply the electrodes which enter. We have some charge free application in gas.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and then
STFC-RAL-CR21: you get the second notification on top here. So it's a double multiplier and singularity
STFC-RAL-CR21: in liquids. This will not.
STFC-RAL-CR21: will be delegated onto the street, and then you will get notification.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now this is also a a dream. And this reminds me the combination of this, and this is what I would propose. 2,006. Why not? Covering the the area instead of having this structure, we can cover a layer
STFC-RAL-CR21: with all kinds of non-structures. Of Microsoft. You can see that they made them mainly for for solar patterns and some optical optical devices. So these are the multipliers that we plan to use.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So let's look how this will work. And i'm speaking to you only about detection of s 2 electrons. You have a particle interacting, for example, a week.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You have a few electrons deposited.
STFC-RAL-CR21: They, at risk
STFC-RAL-CR21: they approach the history.
STFC-RAL-CR21: This month.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You create a high field gear. You get photons and you detect them with the photo sensor. No, If
STFC-RAL-CR21: the as well, the circulation photons can be detected by a photo array sitting at top
STFC-RAL-CR21: or at the bottom, you can also replace his photos. Or
STFC-RAL-CR21: okay, i'll just record you a bit more. No. So there are 2 different types of structures.
STFC-RAL-CR21: the one that I explained a moment ago the at the speed of microscope. Later in the it's called Microsoft, that chamber developed in 88 by and to the earth.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and used for many years by different different groups.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So a here you see the field lines
STFC-RAL-CR21: of the electrons approaching a.
STFC-RAL-CR21: not on the street.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and creating your maybe small avalanche, or mostly electrical innocence. and you have a more interesting structure, which is this one developed by a compelled in 97 in salaries group itself, where they said, we have so many troubles by discharges occurring between
STFC-RAL-CR21: the carto and the and they are not scripts. I just go back one slide. You see, the distance between them is very, very small.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this little discharge.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Why not? To put only animals on the surface of your subset is in the substrate.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and put the cattle plain cattle under the under the layer. So you have a connection of electrons and a of innocence. The benefit
STFC-RAL-CR21: is that this from the completely discharged less device.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we did some calculation simulations of the
STFC-RAL-CR21: of the electric field as function of the distance from a from the on the street. So this is on the street distance from the on the street, the electrons approach
STFC-RAL-CR21: they start creating avenant for mostly the emission of photos, and you see that most structures
STFC-RAL-CR21: give practically the same battle. If I look at the Vcc. One 20 microns. If if you apply 5 kilohertz on the another.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which you cannot do in gas, but you can certainly do it in the in the liquid. and you can probably put even more because there are no there are no ground or cattle electrons in my
STFC-RAL-CR21: so even 5 kg you you see that an E to the innocence starts
STFC-RAL-CR21: 20 microns away from from the surface, child. Multiplication starts about 10 micrometer from the surface, taking the the fields for electromagnetic thresholds
STFC-RAL-CR21: from from upgraded. So this in principle should give you quite
STFC-RAL-CR21: high electrical innocence, and
STFC-RAL-CR21: also child notification.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we didn't have such a Vcc. Like older there, but we don't have them yet. So we did an experiment with a like like polycom's. Experiment with a micro-street device in liquid Zenon.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and what you can see here is the light emitted by the electrom in a sense and avalanche. We go charge game.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You can see signals of S. One and S. 2 from this, 3
STFC-RAL-CR21: from the automatic layer sitting on top. Here the Alphas have a very small range in the liquid few tens of micro. So you have really a bunch of them
STFC-RAL-CR21: approaching. These are preliminary results, because there were some charges in the thing, and we managed to reach only 2 kg.
STFC-RAL-CR21: If you go to much higher potential, of course you you will.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You will have by far larger years
STFC-RAL-CR21: of of buttons that are drifting electrons. So this is what you expect, and we are going to work with the visas.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now. This was a vector which
STFC-RAL-CR21: we studied just for measuring
STFC-RAL-CR21: their labors.
STFC-RAL-CR21: If you want to measure both electrons and photons. you can put it a scale, the device, and you can put
STFC-RAL-CR21: one of these perforated electrodes, undercoated the Sigmaid at of the cattle.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and coupled to one of these liquid microstreet plates, the strips of the Zander.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And here the idea is that the electrons will drift through these electrons.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and we measure this
STFC-RAL-CR21: the drift. The transmission
STFC-RAL-CR21: of this of this device
STFC-RAL-CR21: in liquid xenon for fields which are applicable, and then you can measure them, is of the order 100%.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So practically all the left groups will be focused into this.
STFC-RAL-CR21: into the, into the desperate. In the backgrounds the photos will eat
STFC-RAL-CR21: the photocat or the photo electrons will be transmitted through this
STFC-RAL-CR21: this Michael, and most of them will get
STFC-RAL-CR21: will get lighter mission from the strips. either by electromagnosis only
STFC-RAL-CR21: out the multiplication.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this is a way which the thing could work as well
STFC-RAL-CR21: the quantum efficiency, by the way, in liquid or ccm. I see that we measured.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and they it was first and measured by by apple in the company 10 years ago.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and we get, for example, with substructures of the
STFC-RAL-CR21: of the detector, we get something between 2025% quantum efficiency.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which is, which is rather, which is rather high.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we know that the device will transmit very well electrons, and we know also that we should expect
STFC-RAL-CR21: very high the quantum efficiency for the for the photos.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and these are, by the way, if the different structures which I've described here is a hold of different geometries, different diameters, different thicknesses, and you see that the the field, Larry, and also the
STFC-RAL-CR21: maximum.
But
STFC-RAL-CR21: so remember, we talked about these devices a moment ago, and I recall the fact that you create electrons and photo electrons. You go through a hole. You go through these holes
STFC-RAL-CR21: this holds.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and then you will create your multiplication on the streets.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So, instead of having a cascaded device. why not? They need a single one. namely, having a structure like that.
STFC-RAL-CR21: or like that which is under quotas. We'll see you either for the garden. Then you get your your electrons and your photo electrons going through.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and i'm not divide, and then you detect your life.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now the advantage of this, compared to the previous one is you, don't, have you don't? Have this double double layer. You don't have attenuation in the place.
STFC-RAL-CR21: but simply you have
STFC-RAL-CR21: all your all your electrons, and for the electrodes going through
STFC-RAL-CR21: and to the to the photo sensors. The both of our here can be detected by other array, or they can be a detected. They can be reflected by
STFC-RAL-CR21: by a.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And, as I said before, this
STFC-RAL-CR21: structure that I showed you on the thegoing cell and in the theme strips you can have many spice
STFC-RAL-CR21: on the surface.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I was thinking about the technology. I'm not giving you details. I am sure that today, with modern technologies, you can make such structures
STFC-RAL-CR21: on different materials.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the they are really founders. If you look at them, they have, they are appetizing. So where
STFC-RAL-CR21: Erez Agmoni, this is also one way. We would the one thing that you would like to try, and we are trying to get some devices and try to be better of ourselves. 101.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now, if you want to make larger records. Of course you can. You can work with what we have like different polymers. but you would like, maybe, to
STFC-RAL-CR21: find other materials like glass, or like
STFC-RAL-CR21: quarks, and others on top of which you can, in which you can re All this, for example, from a
STFC-RAL-CR21: I don't know.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and You see, they make very loud area electrons like the agent made of glass. Maybe one can do it's the requirements.
STFC-RAL-CR21: They can code it with different patterns, using it to you can part of them by using laser techniques.
STFC-RAL-CR21: There are plenty of of of metals today in different technologies where you can even use injected all of his photography
STFC-RAL-CR21: in order to create patterns if you want to. So there are plenty of possibilities and open to do large area. Clean
STFC-RAL-CR21: clean devices called grassy glasses were directed, but
STFC-RAL-CR21: it was a You can use that.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So if all this fails, if all these drinks, you wake up in the morning, and they don't work.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we hey?
STFC-RAL-CR21: As a as a backup solution. We are working also on Google Face devices. So
STFC-RAL-CR21: how much time I have 15 min. so one of them
STFC-RAL-CR21: is to have to avoid the the. to avoid the losses of electro, to my photo card.
STFC-RAL-CR21: to get and to to get rid of instabilities of this surface. We decided to put a photo on top of a structure like that that you want to know the
STFC-RAL-CR21: and extract the electrons and get them into a second one, which is in the gas and create a electrical innocence here, and what here is usually done in dwell phase.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So again, I'm. Showing you that electrons can be easily persuaded. Energy resolutions are below standards. If If this kind of set up.
STFC-RAL-CR21: you can see the quantum efficiency of a beautiful environment by you
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the gas. And in a preliminary study we got something which is 300 photons electrodes for my like in the in, the darker, in the living home.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So again, the big advantage is that you are not depending on the on the surface here.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now you can do the same thing, of course. Using this kind of an ecosystem. you explain that you can make a large
STFC-RAL-CR21: Ppc. Of this kind and getting your
STFC-RAL-CR21: electromagnetic.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Another idea this is idea by by chapel. did some of you know. is to make a floating electrode on top of the liquid.
STFC-RAL-CR21: also to get read
STFC-RAL-CR21: of the to get rid of the problems of of inhomogeneous interface. You float
STFC-RAL-CR21: the digital record on top of the liquid, and then you get rid of instabilities of the interface, you reduce spontaneous select remission from the into the gas phase, because the area cover here is much much smaller than the
STFC-RAL-CR21: open thing. The holes are about
STFC-RAL-CR21: 10% or 20% of the surface. And this is quite a robot's device. You take an electron and you flow it. Now when this work Yes.
STFC-RAL-CR21: so he made a test of the right. Some a few months ago, when you could see the setup.
STFC-RAL-CR21: we had a We had an outsource. We created the We created an avalanche. and what you can see here again
STFC-RAL-CR21: s one and s 2 photos resulted from the carto. The s one. Were products going directly to the photo marketplace from.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and we got a light emission versus the extraction potential, the resolution again. So there were 10% for the new devices of that just to stop, and we managed to take a photograph from the top.
STFC-RAL-CR21: You can see this is the electric floating on the liquid
STFC-RAL-CR21: and with a very thin electron the liquid almost reaches the edge. So now we are trying to do it with a thicker electrode, hoping that the liquid will stop
STFC-RAL-CR21: earlier, and then this will be a very high field area that will increase this number and a consider.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this is again an R. And D. Project.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the if you put a photocato underneath you will have both s one and s 2. Maybe you will take both the circulation and the electrons. Okay.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So there are different potential benefits in. We don't short in time, so maybe I will not go into details. But the as a result we expect to reduce single record noise.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And of course the No, no, no sagging and no need for deco leveling. And you know the Thecto is not level, the the
STFC-RAL-CR21: the the electron will still float, and we'll be in contact with your with the tank on this. So I, indeed, as we are doing
STFC-RAL-CR21: just now. They are at least that in Queen. But
STFC-RAL-CR21: just briefly, we are trying also to improve detection of charges rather than life. We send it.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And there is a problem in in multiplying charges in noble liquids because of UV emission
STFC-RAL-CR21: of from the avalanche of Ubi photon emission from from the other lunch which makes secondary effects.
STFC-RAL-CR21: And this is a problematic problem.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So, on one hand, you will have some some sporadic, maybe avalanches. On the other hand, the detector will not work very well. So we are trying 2 different methods. We take this perforated electron structure instead of cutting it directly to a read of the electron. We do it through a resistive
STFC-RAL-CR21: electoral. either a field
STFC-RAL-CR21: or a a thick place, because it's like this, this, like in a Rpc: okay, like in a resisting date. Trevor is why we call it the Outl.
STFC-RAL-CR21: This we developed already several years ago, 10 years ago. For as elements for growing each of the colorometry.
STFC-RAL-CR21: The big detectors. Now, if they are building and for for test experiments itself.
STFC-RAL-CR21: But in this case the charges which are induced
STFC-RAL-CR21: are moving sideways. Okay.
STFC-RAL-CR21: in this case the the the electrode that also used this they used directly is used by induction signals that can be that can be read out.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now the big big difficulty was
STFC-RAL-CR21: to find the right materials, because the resistivity of materials increases exponentially when you go down in temperature.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we found
STFC-RAL-CR21: materials which are appropriate, which are giving the right resistilities at the liquid album. Here temperatures is 87
STFC-RAL-CR21: a Greek.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the the resistive field is a Dfc. I don't like carbon.
STFC-RAL-CR21: which at this temperature has 20 ego
STFC-RAL-CR21: a square, and, as you see, play, there is about 10 to the 9, and the 12
STFC-RAL-CR21: on the offsetting meetings, and this was work.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So we made a a study comparing different structures. One is the regular, a regular tension. This is a lab like use like was proposed by a movie for
STFC-RAL-CR21: for the for the dual-face and neutrino experiment.
STFC-RAL-CR21: This gives us the lowest game in the same setup, and you can see here the game varies according to the different
STFC-RAL-CR21: types of mathematics. This is again this thing. Well, this is the well.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Now you can get again games which are not fabulous. Instead of getting a game of 5, we can get a stable game
STFC-RAL-CR21: er maybe of 16, we can get higher gain. But this is the digital probability.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So you get these charges, but they are quick. I mean they have very low energy. They are quench by the fact that you are creating some space in the holes because you have.
STFC-RAL-CR21: you have this resistive layers.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So where even here the detective will work. But you would you like the more stable of skin?
STFC-RAL-CR21: These devices
STFC-RAL-CR21: could certainly work. so give you a summary of outlook.
STFC-RAL-CR21: I presented some work of Generic R. And the on some dreams of no other liquid hectares which could have potential
STFC-RAL-CR21: potential you both
STFC-RAL-CR21: on the noble liquid detectors not met, and Notrina. May the others? I'm thinking about the next generations in it to no end are neither to be, nor probably to it, or to the Darwin retreat.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the goal is in the fact, the effective detection of both scentilation photos and yourization electrons in one device.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this is something which is which is special
STFC-RAL-CR21: in single phase. We drive various optically recorded configurations in dual phase, also hoping to be recorded. Cascaded multipliers, floating ones, bubble assisted, etc.,
STFC-RAL-CR21: and we even try to record electric in the charges with increasing gain, but not dramatic.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So far we did most of the investigations in New Zealand. and was also also studied in liquid album.
STFC-RAL-CR21: We got lower Pd. And worse energy resolution than expected
STFC-RAL-CR21: from the electron processing interface.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this has to be studied. As I said, we need a lot of studies and simulations on a model
STFC-RAL-CR21: we didn't have. It's very difficult to do simulations of the for the interface.
STFC-RAL-CR21: So in a single face, child and light, and we should investigate it on on microstate strips already.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the
STFC-RAL-CR21: the results are preliminary due to the low discharge units of this device. We are not working on this one, hoping that we will get better results
STFC-RAL-CR21: in a dual face. All that all the detectors gave at this light hills. and this one gave much less. Only 10 photons per lay on the four-
STFC-RAL-CR21: So this number is gives you only the potential to the same photos. As Well, they.
STFC-RAL-CR21: This may be simpler for the sensors in the if you replace photo multipliers by silicon for the on the band, which are noisy.
STFC-RAL-CR21: The fact that you have so many photos, a single single following. If it's a focal market, right? One photon you make for the electron, and then you get many for the electrons, so you can use much simpler
STFC-RAL-CR21: the for the sensors that much cheaper. So you can make the detection then cheaper. So the potential applications are.
STFC-RAL-CR21: and numerous neutrons. Gamers. Besides.
STFC-RAL-CR21: Cortesi had a dream that they would detect neutrons in nuclear physics experiment.
STFC-RAL-CR21: He found it to express. has seen many open questions requiring simulation and experiments most in liquid, arbitrary Zealand. a lot of line B of Nano structures, microstructure stability of a cadence in normally free
STFC-RAL-CR21: and the on different other with those. Thank you.