Björn Wonsak: Okay, thank you very much Ivana yeah I'm very happy for this opportunity to present this great project to you. And I will start with a short introduction
Björn Wonsak: Oh, sorry. And, and then I will make you familiar with the concept and the technologies that are involved. And finally, I will go through you through the programs of physics program with you.
Björn Wonsak: And focusing a bit on Long Baseline physics and then go into a low energy as to particle physics.
Björn Wonsak: But first, a few words about the general goals of Neutrino Physics. So in nor Trina physics and we are interested in solving or answering fundamental questions.
Björn Wonsak: Amongst them we have, for example, the neutrino mixing which we want to address with oscillation experiments. And the key question here is a CP violating face.
Björn Wonsak: And here we want to contribute with car then and we have to search for the neutrino masses, where we employ the endpoint of the better decay mainly
Björn Wonsak: And we are also looking for the nature of the neutrino by using the neutrino desktop a beta decay to see as as the neutrinos could be my honor neutrinos.
Björn Wonsak: Which would indicate or which would be a letter number violating process and also he or CEO wants to contribute and both these parts here.
Björn Wonsak: And are very important, for example, to solve the meta anti matter as in the tree in in our universe.
Björn Wonsak: In addition, we are also employing neutrinos as messengers or folks who you have to look into a lot of sources of neutrinos starting from the cosmic neutrino background over the sun and CEOs.
Björn Wonsak: To very high energies for atmospheric neutrinos.
Björn Wonsak: And even higher and CEO wants to contribute in the energy range between a few MTV and hundreds of TV maybe or several TV was atmospheric. Fair enough, fair enough. So, so always a car in the middle is part of the North free new program have seen
Björn Wonsak: In the last 20 years Neutrino Physics have been very successful. And this can be seen, for example, buys a recent developments.
Björn Wonsak: So in contrast to what Ali put that you cannot detect the neutrino at all. We now have a sky full of more than 100 neutrinos.
Björn Wonsak: And Zara Zara first indications from ice cube that there could be some sources, some some point sources in the sky and also Barack seen, who is now looking
Björn Wonsak: Into the core of the sun and having found the first evidence was the CMO neutrinos this year. So, so this is a very active feared and every year we will be get some new discoveries and so on.
Björn Wonsak: Yeah, and correspondingly, we also have a very rich experimental landscape there. If you look at into this landscapes might notice that many of these detectors that are here depicted
Björn Wonsak: Have optical sensors on the inside of a large volume. And this is a very important and successful class of detectors, the so called large from your genius genius.
Björn Wonsak: Tech us, and there have been many major contribution from these kind of detectors and there will be many more in the future from true know and height Beckham your cardenden
Björn Wonsak: The advantage of this detector type is that it's scalable and it has a can have a large size because it also has a course.
Björn Wonsak: Relatively low threshold of the few Nev or even lower. In the case of liquid simulator.
Björn Wonsak: It can be equipped as fast timing to reduce the background and it can be reconfigured as a few progress. So as you see here, many of the projects.
Björn Wonsak: Developed into a second phase, which was also successful and all of these cases.
Björn Wonsak: So basically these are Sarah two types of these large detectors in red. We see simulator detectors and in blue, we see water detect and they have printed advances.
Björn Wonsak: The water should rank to take, for example, has a very high transparency, which means that you can build it really large and it's of course ship to fill it with water.
Björn Wonsak: It offers directionality and and the rings. As you can see here, here and here can be employed to identify different particle types was in high efficiency.
Björn Wonsak: And it can also be loaded with isotopes. Like, for example, super come to Canada, which will be loaded this gadolinium or is already loaded Piscataway
Björn Wonsak: And then we have some liquid simulators say have a very high light years leading to a very good energy resolution and a low threshold and only due to this, it's possible to go below the MTV range.
Björn Wonsak: And even makes the PP part of the solar neutrinos visible and another plus point for liquid center later is that it can be ready illogically very clean and which is also important for these low background experiments.
Björn Wonsak: And so the question is how to combine the advantages of course, and that's the idea that is behind Sia those in car, we want to use
Björn Wonsak: The cutting edge technologies in terms of Nova to target medium new very fast light technicians and so forth and and new reconstruction methods.
Björn Wonsak: To to combine these advantages and this will lead as I will present later to you to nets enhanced sensitivity and abroad. Physics program from the Long Baseline oscillation physics down to the neutrinos tablet better decay and Astro particle physics.
Björn Wonsak: So,
Björn Wonsak: One key aspect of this, however, is that we first have to to be able to separate the shrank of installation lights so we must
Björn Wonsak: Speak English exam if we can do that, then we get additional information that is not possible with ease. As a shrank of North
Björn Wonsak: Central Asian detect technology and that is the ratio between the church is the shrink of installation light and basically we will get the energy from the ventilation photons and some momentum, so to say, from the number of
Björn Wonsak: Sri Lanka photons and together. This allows us to distinguish Madeline particles in similar ways that a treasured counter distinguish between different particles.
Björn Wonsak: And so how can we do this principle, we could start with the fuel liquid simulator detector and as you can see here we have, there's roughly one in 10,000 photons Nev so a lot of light.
Björn Wonsak: But from the water we see that we only get a few percent of that in terms of the rank of light. So this will make it hard to see the show rank of
Björn Wonsak: rings in the background of the simulation lined in addition. Unfortunately, these simulation detectors at don't have a lot of high at your nation links that means that the majority
Björn Wonsak: Of the photons of this true rank of photons will be scattered or absorbed in a large detector before reaching the CMT s. And then of course the directional information would be lost.
Björn Wonsak: So therefore, we need to optimize the liquid before we can start with such an experiment. So how can we do this. One option is to use the radius scattering
Björn Wonsak: Is this can be done, for example by using a very transparent solvent. Like, for example, less than Juno be achieved at uni Asian length above 20 meters or even 25 meters and then we could also dilutes this saw event or this liquid simulator in in water or and or oil like Ellison teetered
Björn Wonsak: And the other possibility would be to reduce the floor concentration in our simulator is this would make the transfer of a turn off the light from the solvent to the floor, less effective.
Björn Wonsak: Therefore, we will get less ventilation light, which makes the ratio more favorable between the ventilation light and shrink of light.
Björn Wonsak: And it will also slow down to the simulator and this will help and the separation of post lights, Ph. D is se will see later.
Björn Wonsak: Because that means that we are looking for a liquid that isn't this intermediate range of light here and education length. And we can do this either.
Björn Wonsak: On water basis on light basis and both are under consideration for our project is this water based liquid scintillating is relatively new.
Björn Wonsak: And but it can is now very well also understood it can be reduced by using certifications or 10 sites and to generate missiles was the oil inside. So that means we have a
Björn Wonsak: Mutual phallic prophetic hat and that will point to the water and in the inside of this Messiah we will have oil and mutual phobic tales.
Björn Wonsak: And this will be a very stable complex. This has been successfully produced at Brookhaven and minds.
Björn Wonsak: And in Brookhaven. There's also a time scale production facility. And so we can make large has handle offices.
Björn Wonsak: And of course, we also have to prove that this is a stable liquid. People want to measure this. With this for several years.
Björn Wonsak: And this will require cleaning procedures for example, and therefore is the UK Davis in California, and it has developed a nano filtration process.
Björn Wonsak: Which also has been successful you so you can see here on the right that absorption links before and after this nano filtration essentially the same.
Björn Wonsak: And another important point is that you can load this liquid was a lot of different elements which you can choose according to the physics requirements and this is even easier, at least in terms of methods. Send for normally could send it later.
Björn Wonsak: Okay, so now you have a favorable. Yet we or ratio between the rank of light and simulation night.
Björn Wonsak: Now, we still have two separate and basically there are three different methods. To do this, we can employ the timing.
Björn Wonsak: So the shrank of light is produced more or less promptly by the simulation light has a decay involved.
Björn Wonsak: And then we can use the wavelengths, the wiser simulation light peaks at a certain wavelength, the shrink of light has a broad spectrum.
Björn Wonsak: And we could could have cost us the angular distribution. In other words, shrank of links and for these we have different requirements.
Björn Wonsak: And for example, for the timing, we need some nanosecond resolution or better, and we hope to address this this this technologies, the large area because second
Björn Wonsak: Or two detectors caught short la PTS. These are flat 20 by 20 centimeters like center sends us, which basically employed to MCP layers.
Björn Wonsak: To be able to see single photons and the main advantage of them is that they have a very fast timers timing or very good time resolution of have less than 100 Pico seconds and also a good spatial resolution of less than one centimeters, they produce.
Björn Wonsak: Not a lot. After power poses and say a commercially available now. Bye bye income and this timing is not only important for the separation of
Björn Wonsak: Rank of light, but it will also be important for the reconstruction of tracks. For example, because one centimeter and water is something like 150 people seconds.
Björn Wonsak: So if you have such a timing and quick, light social rank of light, then you can maybe produce pictures like this in the end was a very good spatial resolution.
Björn Wonsak: Is this the second possibility to divide between to rank of installation light as a rings. And for this, the main features that we need is a high granularity.
Björn Wonsak: And of course, then we need a lot of photo sensors say must be cheap and efficient to collect as much light as possible and they must be reasonable fast because we
Björn Wonsak: Also want to divide by time, as was the LAPD, but maybe it's not important for for all the tech tools to do this perfectly
Björn Wonsak: And there are several good solutions for that, for example, we have high quality a quantum efficiency 20 inch CMT s which are for, for example, employed and, you know,
Björn Wonsak: As they reach a TTS of one nanosecond and quantum efficiency of about 30% then we could go to even higher granularity by, for example, employing such a module, module, which is
Björn Wonsak: Studied by hyper k and the corresponding water should rank of test in experiment or we could even employ silicon PM capital to active flight guides which increase the effective areas that second cover.
Björn Wonsak: So third possibility to separate between both lights is this is the base links.
Björn Wonsak: And here we could use so called quote filters that are filters that have a certain wavelength threshold threshold and pillows US Treasury take basically reflect all the light
Björn Wonsak: And passes threshold. They basically transmit or light, or the other way round two. Depending where they use, you use a short past or high pass filter.
Björn Wonsak: If you couple that with Vincent comes then you get a new optical system, which we call the quote can't die crow. Crow icons.
Björn Wonsak: And because you can arrange it in such a way that there's an inner Winston cone, which has this filter.
Björn Wonsak: And will collect all the shrank of light on read sensitive sensor here in the middle.
Björn Wonsak: And the as a light bulb goes through this in our Winston cone and will be collected on a second lose sensitive sensor in that by producing a very pure differentiation between
Björn Wonsak: Those lights, lights pieces. And of course, we also have to demonstrate that this is really possible. And for this, that you're operating an experiment just quite chess to rank of ventilation separation, which
Björn Wonsak: Is a cosmic new on ring emergent experiments that means that we have a moon coming down on an area of fast PMT
Björn Wonsak: And they are we can measure the church at the time of light arriving there.
Björn Wonsak: And as you can see here below this, we have a sudden ring, where we expect this rank of light and Debbie have to fast timing, which is the one you see here, and blue.
Björn Wonsak: And outside and inside we have much slower timings and that is where we can see only this ventilation light.
Björn Wonsak: And so this is clearly possible in such a controlled environment. And we use this control my environment also to characterize the water based liquid simulator.
Björn Wonsak: And one interesting thing was that we noted there that says water best liquid since he later based on lab, pp. O.
Björn Wonsak: 's even faster as an LA, pp. O. 's. This can be good for spatial resolution, but it's maybe not good for the separation. And so, so this needs to be taken into account, of course, very carefully and all our Monte Carlos, and therefore we use this data in order to study said I will present
Björn Wonsak: Okay. And finally, we put all this information to answer and employ our reconstruction lessons and also there. We had a lot of improvements in the last time.
Björn Wonsak: Ranging from new technologies or lessons like topological reconstruction, which allow us to make
Björn Wonsak: Energy deposit along tracks visible, even in pure liquid, send it later so that we can identify showers machine learning, which is also a very important tool and and this could, for example, be used to identify the true prong structure of the material established better became like him.
Björn Wonsak: And we can discriminate was this between point like and non point like events. For example, this is a study and was a no detector.
Björn Wonsak: And there we employed two different industry different type data sets and the first data set we use perfect information so perfect politics and note note time resolution of the
Björn Wonsak: optical sensors and no doc count rate. And then we added a realistic vertex and TTS in the second step and doc count rate in a search term.
Björn Wonsak: And we tried to separate Alex positrons from electrons and electrons from gas and as you can see here for the perfect data set we get very high efficiencies, so we can get an efficiency of better than 90% why
Björn Wonsak: Gets getting rid of more than 90% of the background and these both cases. However, if we go to a more realistic TTS this gets worse. And this shows us how important the quote TTS is for such an instrument and unfortunately, you know, does not have this TTS
Björn Wonsak: Just required for this and what I also want to point out that this is really the first time that is that we can see that a simulation detector can discriminate cameras from electrons, which is very important in many low background experiments.
Björn Wonsak: So how would our tech person look like. So we want to put a large detectable was a size between 25 and 100,000 kilotons. This will depend on the physics and to location.
Björn Wonsak: So, maximum size is basically given by the transparency of the the liquids that we use. So for water based liquid 70 later, we cannot exceed 50 meters and every time engine and we will employ a mix of convent conventional an LA PTS
Björn Wonsak: And the location should be very deep to make the Astro particle physics program where you will. So for example, we could go to homestead psi me and Finland or two. So some Korean sides.
Björn Wonsak: And we have to consider isotope loading. This will also depend on the physics that we want to address. So to conclude, we have a very flexible detector system which will lead to a broad physics program, but everything will depend on where we get to purchase detector.
Björn Wonsak: And to start with the physics program and I want to talk about Long Baseline physics first there. Of course, we, we need a beam.
Björn Wonsak: And in the near future. There are two upcoming large scale projects that have such a beam one will be hyper K detector. So of water shrank of detector.
Björn Wonsak: And that Yun detector which isn't a liquid argon detector and in principle we could attach ourselves to both of them. For example, in Hyper K
Björn Wonsak: You could think about changing the liquids. So that's a bit more simulator, like, and if the sensors are fast enough or you could go to Korea and
Björn Wonsak: Act as a second detect or to hyper K. However, most of our collaborators are from the US and also working for June, so I will focus on the second option, this this talk.
Björn Wonsak: And the June been long baseline, or you know facility or generated by the Long Baseline or training facility at family lab.
Björn Wonsak: And it is a high intensity beam which is pointed at the Stanford underground research facility short stuff.
Björn Wonsak: At the distance of 101,300 kilometers. So you can expect large meta effects which is important for the mass hierarchy and and it's very deep.
Björn Wonsak: It's about 1500 meters deep. So it has a new influx was which is about 10% less than an LNG so Italy. So this is the record for our Astro particle physics program.
Björn Wonsak: Currently, it has plans to pick three liquid aren't detect us in these for Kevin's. However, the force Kevin was the detectors that is to be there is still under discussion discussion.
Björn Wonsak: And one of the possibilities, would be to employ a car like detectors there in that case society is of course given buys a Kevin, which will be 25 kilotons
Björn Wonsak: You leave us residing in a fusion last of 17 kilotons or a bit more, we would use water based liquids ventilator, and a mixture of 10 inch PM Ts and LAPD
Björn Wonsak: And what's the total coverage of about 28%, which is what super come to Canada has at the moment.
Björn Wonsak: For the extended programs so Solano trina's on nutritional established beta decay. This would need to be upgraded and so is the background level VX the we are calculating this is relatively conservative. So it's two orders of magnitude higher than what our CMO has managed
Björn Wonsak: And
Björn Wonsak: And if if this detector would be employed. He was in a kind of stage approach, that means the first place could be or what these along baseline or Trina physics was a sin water best liquid center later was there every quarter dress. Long Baseline
Björn Wonsak: Program and the proton decay, then we could change the liquid to an oily liquid simulator which would be perfect for our Astro particle physics program and and we finally could install back was contains loaded liquid simulator to address in our training less standard beta decay.
Björn Wonsak: So how, what's the sensitivity sensitivity of this compared to
Björn Wonsak: The E aspect here is to reject the neutral current background. So if you have your know trillions a beam and factor into X neutral current, it can produce a pi zero and this idea of a decay into two cameras, which will look more or less exactly like an electron appearing peering and
Björn Wonsak: And so, so this is very important to distinguish this and fortunately super come your candor and hyper K have improved the reconstruction methods, a lot soul sister likelihood based methods quite conventional
Björn Wonsak: The used for the ring and the chain and then you can distinguish up to six rings as I think. And if he assumes the same efficiency, then we get the sensitivities that you can see here below.
Björn Wonsak: So you have to look at the two dotted lines so Mackenzie line is CS 17 kilotons so the project I showed you
Björn Wonsak: And as a see on dotted line is what one module of june can achieve in terms of sensitivity and he on the left side you have
Björn Wonsak: Sensitivity for CP violation and on the right side you see the sensitivity for the mass ordering and in both cases.
Björn Wonsak: The more or less exactly match or slightly exceed what one June module can do so to gives us K Kevin to Sia born in no way be a loss. So we at least equivalent to one muta June module insensitivity
Björn Wonsak: However, we can bring a lot of additional benefits. First of all, we have a slightly larger mass. So, we will have a bit more statistics.
Björn Wonsak: But more importantly, we will have completely complimentary systematics we will have us as a target nuclei was simpler cross sections.
Björn Wonsak: And and we have a different technology. And in the end, June will be dominated by systematics so adding a different technology is more important than simply increasing the statistics.
Björn Wonsak: Furthermore, we have a tracking abilities for neutrons and we will mainly maybe be also able to see the protons also recoil of them.
Björn Wonsak: And this will also allow us to reduce the system metrics of the energy reconstruction and, furthermore, it could give us information about the neutrino and anti neutrino content, at least on a statistical basis.
Björn Wonsak: And then we will have a very good energy resolution at low energies.
Björn Wonsak: Which is important to to access the second installation maximum here, which is actually more sensitive to CP violations and the first Australasian Malaysian maximum due to the
Björn Wonsak: Large angle tetra one, three and we will have fast timing and this can be employed to look at different times slices of the events in comparing them was, was a timing of the punch of the team if you feel that this is one of such a beam as it will arrive at
Björn Wonsak: June facility itself.
Björn Wonsak: Then the neutrinos produced by slow chaos and pions they will arrive, a bit later because the pions on crayons need some time entity katana and more times and the
Björn Wonsak: High energetic pions on crayons and you can see clearly. As you see here from the color codes that the time difference between the nominal arrival time and
Björn Wonsak: And the later part of the punch in punch the Zen Zen, the energy spectrum will be much softer than in the first part of the punch and this
Björn Wonsak: Can be used to this entangled systematics in terms of flux, flux cross section and RICO efficiencies and, in addition, these different spectrums will also have a different flavor content which is which has the same benefits.
Björn Wonsak: Okay, so now let's come to the astral particle physics.
Björn Wonsak: Where we look at different sources. And here, and it's most important that we have a deep detector. So to reduce the background. And we also need a lot of statistics. In some cases, so. So in most of the following, and I will assume that we have a 50 kiloton detector or even a larger one.
Björn Wonsak: First, let's look at solar neutrinos forever be will be especially good
Björn Wonsak: And then we want to address three three questions. First, we want to distinguish between the high and low McCluskey Sola models and for that you need to accurately measure the CMO flux
Björn Wonsak: As this see an old have already been discovered by boxy gnome but but not wasn't high accuracy has a flex be measured.
Björn Wonsak: Then we also want to look at the age for an eight neutrinos, which can test this region here where you see the survivor probability of Solano trina's versus the energy
Björn Wonsak: And the great band is a prediction on the NSP minus LM a prediction. So the standard model for neutrino oscillation in meta and
Björn Wonsak: And to distinguish this from as possible explanations on things was non standard interactions and so on. You need a point in this region and this, this could be done by measuring or an eight at three Nev
Björn Wonsak: And finally, we want to do a precision test of solar model so simply
Björn Wonsak: Getting down with the uncertainties. For example, here for the PEP neutrinos, we have currently in an uncertainty of about 15 to 20% and then Sia expect uncertainty of about 4% because be able to have high statistics and a very low background.
Björn Wonsak: In addition, car can can also consider to be loaded with lithium and this will open a new channel to access Solano Trina surcharge current channel which is depicted here.
Björn Wonsak: And in the case of lithium and the differential cross check section of this process processes peaks very sharply.
Björn Wonsak: And so that means that almost all incidents energy is transparent transferred to the scattered electron
Björn Wonsak: If you look on to into this plot and you see the dotted lines for pepper neutrinos with SS elastic scattering, you see. So typical company edge like structure and the spectrum and and this will be replaced by a peek like structure. If you do this with this young shots current interactions.
Björn Wonsak: In this process be we will get to transitions of Lucien one to the grounds to state of beryllium seven and one to the excited state which will then decay by emitting a 430 kV comma, and this will allow us to Texas successfully.
Björn Wonsak: I also want to mention that directionality. So the shrink of light is really important for for this kind of analysis se on this slide, you see.
Björn Wonsak: As a result of the studies that has been done with Monte Carlo model produced by the chef's experiment where we assumed a 50 kiloton detectable. And we're looking at the directional resolution that we can get was a complete reconstruction seen
Björn Wonsak: For different kinds of water based liquid simulator from pure water to pure Ls and you see in his angular resolution here in yellow.
Björn Wonsak: And the different lines the dotted line and shaded line they are different time resolutions assumed for the photo sensors. And what you can see here is that depending on the time resolution, we can expect something between and
Björn Wonsak: Let's say 75 or 40 degree and EULA resolution and and
Björn Wonsak: Use the conventional TMT 60 degree angle, the resolution. So it's really important to have a fast timing to be able to separate us
Björn Wonsak: And depending on the resolution. Our sensitivities to see an old was also very so if we have something like 35% we would be we would be at a resolution of about 9% and yeah, you see, you see the rest. So, so we are really employing as the show rank of light here and as an important
Björn Wonsak: Topic supernova neutrinos and cm. And so the supernova burst neutrinos where we always consider to compare experiments, a supernova at a distance of about 10 kilo per panics and this will open new windows to a lot of firsts expressions like testing supernova moderates
Björn Wonsak: Looking into the mass hierarchy and so on, and due to the rank of life, we would have an expectation that the coach and and you know resolution or pointing
Björn Wonsak: We would have very high rates in all kinds of channels which would allow us to distinguish between all the different flavors and we will have a time resolve flux for for them.
Björn Wonsak: And this is complimentary to June, where you basically what to expect electron scattering and no not inverse better decay.
Björn Wonsak: And it's also, in a sense, complimentary to the other large projects on the other side of the US because by measuring, for example, it's super K and itself, you will get some rest between both measurements and this will allow all kinds of oscillation studies.
Björn Wonsak: The browser of this analysis as a so called few supernova grandma dreamers.
Björn Wonsak: And we're just basically is a combination of either neutrino so often often Latinos produced in past supernovas and assistant coders coats information about star. The star formation rate as well as the average score collapse neutrino spectrum.
Björn Wonsak: And and here it's an advantage. First, that we have a low threshold so we can text, the neutrons from the ID.
Björn Wonsak: And and said we have all this shrank of light information, especially the social rank of to simulation light ratio because the background is mainly atmospheric neutral current reactions.
Björn Wonsak: And this mostly produced hydroponic particles which will not produce shrank of light, or at least not that much. So, so if you look into the region of interest here and
Björn Wonsak: Then the blue. What is a signal and the black is the background and usually you would get all all the background in this region.
Björn Wonsak: But we could cut a lot of this by employing shrank have to censor relation ratio and how it affects this is and be seen as a spectrum.
Björn Wonsak: This is suspected before we use this ratio answering counting and surette is the atmospheric backgrounds and user account background and the blue is what we want to measure and without these cuts we are simply
Björn Wonsak: flooded by background, however, applying these plots. There's a cuts the DSM v will become clearly visible so that we expect the sensitivity of five sigma after five years of measurements.
Björn Wonsak: And then we can also, of course, as a measure you know trina's without also anti neutrinos measured by the IDP
Björn Wonsak: There, we will have thousands of events which will allow us precise measurement of the saurian radium components in the spectrum which is very important to test the
Björn Wonsak: Geo physical models. This is also possible as Juno, however, we will be on the other side and we will be in a completely different geological location.
Björn Wonsak: And so since we want to start is your services. So this is very important to be in a different location. For example, we expect that we would get a Tuesday.
Björn Wonsak: Difference between our resides. And the Camden resides in Japan after only one year, which would then be the first evidence for the surface variation of synergy between of flux by tonight feels
Björn Wonsak: So this is all about astral particle. Now I can put you as our
Björn Wonsak: Pics likes neutrino. Let's double tap decay.
Björn Wonsak: And they're not treating the static data decay could prove that to neutrinos. Am I on us. If it is discovered and but it's only possible for certain selected number of isotopes only through these isotopes that you can only also undergoes a normal company better decay.
Björn Wonsak: For that is therefore we have to top our, our liquid this this kind of isotopes, of course, and we are looking for a peek at the q, where you have this decay and
Björn Wonsak: This means because it will be overlap buys a spectrum of the debate, patty cake was not trina's. So this means that we need a very good energy resolution to get rid of this background.
Björn Wonsak: And we need to get extremely low background in terms of radioactivity and for that reason he would imply an additional of fuel liquid simulator was in our water based liquids ventilator. He assumed that the spec is eight meters and radios.
Björn Wonsak: And the main advantage of see is that we can fill in such a back a lot of material and this is difficult. And as I'm not trying to establish better less decay experiments.
Björn Wonsak: Suspect can in principle. Oh, that was a variety of isotopes, but we decided to study to loom and seen on
Björn Wonsak: And this led to a sensitivity in the serum K to do in case of 6.3 any v in terms of the effective neutrino mass for the
Björn Wonsak: Topic it K and for 16 on. We could even get a bit lower. However, I have to admit that that sent on study is not really realistic because we would need 10 times the annual production of oil to enrich seen on available on the word
Björn Wonsak: And yeah, however, is a value that I showed for the to the room, if you compare this with as I experiments which is usually done in such a plot, then we would be about one order of magnitude.
Björn Wonsak: Below, what we have achieved today and almost touch the normal ordering, which is, yeah, very competitive at the moment.
Björn Wonsak: And and here you see, how's the background is composited and and if you look closely, you see the signal and red. And the main background here is
Björn Wonsak: I E 113 and carbon 110 is also important. Both are carcinogenic isotopes, however, also, this could potentially be removed by looking on point light and non point life events signatures.
Björn Wonsak: Successfully example been studied in this paper where continuous Convolution Neural Network has been used for combat like detector. So was a very bad coverage and about 20%
Björn Wonsak: And they could achieve signal efficiency of 90% and the background reduction of 62%
Björn Wonsak: Increasing the light collection up to the maximum level what increase the background reduction to 98% so car would probably be somewhere in between and
Björn Wonsak: Carbon 10 is background, not only for monitoring less taboo petty K, but also for the low Solano trainers and I think similar things are possible for for each 130 because
Björn Wonsak: It also has a complete gamma cascade for carbon 10. This is so easy, because you always get a positive one. And in addition to gamma. So this is clearly not point like
Björn Wonsak: Finally, he will also be looking and it's a nuclear decay with cm. He is a main advantage of car is a low threshold and low background.
Björn Wonsak: So low threshold for example allows us to see the K on which he or she rank of detectors cannot see if the proton. The case into a k plus
Björn Wonsak: As this will it give us is very powerful triple coincidence between the chaos chaos K entity K of the decay products and as you can see on the left, we would be then competitive.
Björn Wonsak: With all the ongoing experiments on and also was June only high arcade do too. It's very large size would be better than be but was was a was efficiency.
Björn Wonsak: And then we could also study in visibility. CASE OF nuclear eyes and, for example, the neutron going to three neutrinos and in this case the
Björn Wonsak: New the oxygen what be excited and there's this excitation what release a comma of roughly six and we which we could tech and this would lead to such a sensitivity, where we would be clearly leading
Björn Wonsak: And so finally, let me point out that all of this highly relies on a lot of r&d work and for this we have formed a large community or broad community of interest.
Björn Wonsak: And we all are currently working and as I experiments like true know or snow or watchmen hearings in Great Britain and
Björn Wonsak: Others people working for these experiments are keeping their eyes open and using synergies that all feed into CRM.
Björn Wonsak: So, so we have made many advances by simply using all the ongoing projects as testbed for for our technology biology and we will do so or so in the future. And this is basically is a car collaboration. So we have many countries.
Björn Wonsak: Especially large contributions from Germany, Canada and the US, however, of course, every one of you would also be very welcome. We are still searching for
Björn Wonsak: People who want to fight with us for this great project. So to let me include car.
Björn Wonsak: Combines the advantages of water shrink have an illiquid simulator detector on using cutting edge technology like water best liquid simulator LAPD Tae Kwon Crow and cons advanced reconstruction and so on.
Björn Wonsak: It is mainly due to the technology and due to the liquid very complimentary to the existing upcoming large scale projects which can be a large advantage.
Björn Wonsak: And it has a broad physics program. For example, it will enhance the sensitivity for long baseline physics Solano Trina supernova know he knows the S amp D, it's not trivial established better DK
Björn Wonsak: And I think it makes an excellent match for the three two modules. So it's a big competitor for the force Canada and I think
Björn Wonsak: It's surrounded by a large D program and we already generated a large Community interest which you can also see by by too many papers nowadays mentioned or to see if say status and physics cases. So thank you very much for your attention.
Björn Wonsak: This is my talk. Yeah.
Ivana Hristova: Thank you very much to you beyond for this very nice overview, which was very clear and and educational as well.
Ivana Hristova: So let's see if we have questions.
Ivana Hristova: From our colleagues. So yes, Alphonse
Alfons Weber: So I have a comment and and some questions. You mentioned the the the photo coverage of of car 25 in the surface silly to be
Alfons Weber: Just under 30% and that will be similar to super K super k has a 40% for to cover for dog Catholic coverage but I assume it's the equivalent because you use higher sensitivity of photo multipliers.
Björn Wonsak: Yeah. I forgot to mention that. Yeah.
Alfons Weber: Okay. And in that context, you pointed out on one slide that you have a pointing accuracy for supernovas of 1%
Alfons Weber: One degree not 1% one degree. And that's kind of a factor of five better what super calm, you can, they can do. And I assume that a tech toys is is if it was a 70 kiloton detector is just like a factor of two bigger
Alfons Weber: Than supercomputer. So I'm just wondering what what is driving that good resolution.
Björn Wonsak: Yeah, I, I don't have it completely in mind. But I think there are two aspects, mainly you too. Bye bye collecting the neutrons and getting the average offset between the interaction point
Björn Wonsak: Of the neutrino in the ID and the neutron and and we are much more effective and tastings and neutrons and water based liquid simulator any water detector and the second aspect is that we could also implies elastic scattering, of course, and then used to shrink of light.
Alfons Weber: Yeah, so
Alfons Weber: So I think super key is mostly you the most effective events are the elastic scattering, but then
Alfons Weber: The neutron recorded certainly not used. And so in super key in the analysis. Okay.
Alfons Weber: Because that's, of course, it's something you can do almost instantaneously. And if you can give them the the Astronomy or community or a one degree search field.
Alfons Weber: Instead of a 2025 square degree search field that's a huge advantage for for the observation and so and. And the other thing is you pointed out that see that car has a sensitivity with a 70 kiloton detector, the same as a single unit module.
Alfons Weber: Which
Alfons Weber: Is very nice to see, but of course what matters there in the end is really the systematic uncertainties which which
Alfons Weber: Which then limit. In the end, the, the sensitivity. So I assume that if you want to get to the to finally the law systematic uncertainty which you would need for the combination of the experiment, you would also need
Alfons Weber: Some near detectors, whichever similar targets then then then car which are currently not for seen in the June.
Björn Wonsak: As as that's, that's true. Unfortunately, we have not been able to study this yet. Yeah, we need to start Jesus, but
Björn Wonsak: Yeah, it would be very favorable to have the same
Björn Wonsak: Target medium or to engineer detector of juniors
Alfons Weber: Okay. Thank you. Very nice talk.
Björn Wonsak: Thank you.
Ivana Hristova: Okay, are there other questions.
Ivana Hristova: So I want to ask about the the three types of photo detectors which you mentioned. And I wanted to ask whether which of those is most radio logically clean and whether, for example, the silicon based now silicon multipliers won't be adding
Ivana Hristova: More material or would they be your classifier Sergio logical the clean has been it's been studied.
Björn Wonsak: Notice has not been studied yet and i i assume that for the silicon PM is the amount of material is less than four for the other approaches, because this light guide. I think that can be made radioactively clean and but I have no idea what's the total budget would be the end
Ivana Hristova: Yeah, okay.
Ivana Hristova: And now another question about the this nice feature which you mentioned that
Ivana Hristova: With the we would be able to tune the medium and the target medium to the physics we want to study and
Ivana Hristova: I was wondering whether this is cost effective and on what time scale would, would it happen.
Björn Wonsak: Yeah. And so depending on the liquid. I think it could be cost effective because you reuse basically the same detector side.
Björn Wonsak: But only have to change the liquid and as experiments have done so, however, also in these other experiments, you see that this still requires a lot of planning. So I don't think that you can do this.
Björn Wonsak: Within one year or so you have to plan ahead or not. And then you, you have to, to change the liquid, the actual change itself, like for example in snow.
Björn Wonsak: Could probably be quite quick the few. Yeah, this would be possible was an one months but the pre planning to get everything in place will take some time.
Ivana Hristova: Okay, so it could be envisaged to be done during an accelerator shut down. Oh.
Ivana Hristova: Yeah, it is on that.
Björn Wonsak: Times. I think so. I think that would be the constraint and you simply have to work hard to make a match this strain.
Ivana Hristova: Yeah. And just very simple basic question.
Ivana Hristova: When you, when would those us photo multiply plus
Ivana Hristova: Be placed on the sides of the detector. So is, is this the construction of the detector doesn't require wires or any
Ivana Hristova: Material inside the liquid
Björn Wonsak: That's true. It's completely homogeneous liquid in the inside. Yeah, was a light sensors will be on the surface of the vessel.
Okay.
Ivana Hristova: Another question on page six, which was a very impressive set of pictures.
Ivana Hristova: And
Ivana Hristova: I was wondering whether there is a point in time in history where we could say
Ivana Hristova: That the first type of these large vessel huge volume detectors was invented, and that this has proven to be a promising technology.
Ivana Hristova: That could be improved on like
Björn Wonsak: Copy.
Björn Wonsak: To the accelerators. The first experiment that proved by Ryan's and David
Björn Wonsak: If I remember correctly, this one here on the left.
Björn Wonsak: Which is in black and bytes. This already was of the same type, basically. And this was, how's the reactor neutrinos was a neutrino itself has been discovered for the first time. Yeah, so
Björn Wonsak: This time detector was already involved there.
Ivana Hristova: And, in which he was this
Björn Wonsak: Is the Nobel Prize was in 1995 the discovery of the
Björn Wonsak: Electron Antinori. No, I think it must have been in the late 50s.
Björn Wonsak: I'm not sure.
Alfons Weber: Company. I think I've 59 or 57 in my head.
Björn Wonsak: Yeah, something like that and
Alfons Weber: And if you comment on that. I think there wasn't really a point where you said yes. Big detector that the first one.
Alfons Weber: It was very incremental process because like you see that that detector, there is maybe two by two meters or something.
Alfons Weber: It's an homogeneous volume and then that kind of continuously grows as you go to to to bigger as time progresses. So I'm not sure what can really see there's kind of a point where you have a big with a big homogeneous detector was event invented
Björn Wonsak: Yeah, true.
Ivana Hristova: Yeah, I am. I was just having a knowledge here with that with the cyclotron invented by Ernst Lawrence and now the large
Ivana Hristova: Circular the future circular collider, which is being planned so there is a huge evolution and maybe
Ivana Hristova: In this list, which you mentioned of the energy range of neutrinos, which would could be detected in the future. We could have a general purpose neutrino detector which could cover the full spectrum.
Björn Wonsak: Yeah, the cosmic not not Trina background will be very difficult backs. What you could add as astrophysical neutrinos.
Björn Wonsak: If you equip ice cube find enough this many strings, then you can lower the energy threshold until you cover most of, of what car can also do but yeah and
Alfons Weber: You don't go to a solar neutrinos. So, so I think having a multipurpose do everything just doesn't work because you have either very low fluxes at the highest energy
Alfons Weber: Or very small cross sections at the at the lowest and you need to find energy resolution and quite different background. So I think it's not it's a quite different situation or trios, and then you have compared to the LSC
Ivana Hristova: Okay.
Alfons Weber: And just to correct myself the neutrino was discovered in 56 not not in 57
Björn Wonsak: Thank you.
Ivana Hristova: Okay, so I don't see other questions you have a last chance to ask anything
Ivana Hristova: Okay, that's not the case, then let's thank beyond again.
Ivana Hristova: Thank you very much beyond for joining us.
Björn Wonsak: And for the invitation. Yeah.
Ivana Hristova: See you another time.
Ivana Hristova: Yeah, and
Ivana Hristova: Also by everyone we we stop the meeting and I stop the recording now.
Ivana Hristova: Okay, bye.
Alfons Weber: Thanks a lot. Beyond very interesting
Björn Wonsak: Thank you.
Chris Damerell: Great talk. I. Bye.
Björn Wonsak: Bye.