STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yes.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, we think one more speaker.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Amen.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Excuse me.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Let's change the Japanese.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: God bless.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, so as you can see.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: There's a god.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay, I hope people in Zoom can hear me.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Welcome!
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We have one more speaker, Mark, who is not here yet, but since he's going to go last, I think we can get started.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to what might be the only event this Christmas where you get festive cheers, cookies, and macroscopic quantum tunneling. This afternoon's theme is the Christmas Feast of Science, and like any good feast, we are celebrating the finest ingredients, curiosity.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Discovery, brilliance, failure, persistence.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And, most importantly, the instrument that costs millions run on nanometer precision and still needs to be switched off and on again sometimes. On the surface, today might sound like a Nobel Prize event, but really, this is all about finding a good excuse to celebrate the work we do here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And just as importantly, to remind ourselves to actually notice it once in a while.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And while the noble medals may be minted in Stockholm.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The journey to those discoveries often run through places just like this one.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Where, as Radafar neatly put it, we are really just here to find things out.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine this year celebrates the discovery of regulatory T cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The cells that teach our immune system the difference between what to fight and what to protect.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That discovery began back in the…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: late 1990s as pure curiosity-driven biology, answering a question that had puzzled immunologists for decades. Why doesn't our immune system attack us all the time?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, following this discovery, what connects this directly to Harvell is…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: that understanding immune regulation at this level now depends critically on the biophysics, structure, imagining, and quantitative methods. Exactly the kind of cross-disciplinary science happening here every day.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So this year's Madison Nobel Prize isn't just a story about cells, it's a story about how physics, biology, and technology come together to reveal life's most delicate control systems.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Similarly, for the Nobel Prize in Physics this year.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We celebrate the moment when quantum mechanics truly stepped into electrical circuits.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: When tunneling, decoherence, and fragile quantum states stopped being thought experiments and became engineering challenges.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And moments like that never belong to a single lab or a single experiment.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: They rest on decades of quite theoretical work on understanding how quantum systems lose information, how measurement disturbs what it observes, and how control might one day stabilize what nature constantly tries to destroy.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Which makes it especially fitting that we have one of the people who helped build that intellectual framework right here in the audience today, and that's Professor Gerard Milburn.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Through his work on quantum measurement, decoherence, and control, he helped shape how an entire generation of physicists think about keeping quantum systems, including superconducting circuits, alive long enough to be useful.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But I won't single him out.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Too dramatically here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Another example in the chemistry is the Nobel Prize is the Celebrating the Metal Organic Frameworks, the MOFs.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The remarkable porous materials that can trap gases, separate chemicals, store energy, and more.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But here's the part that belongs to this campus. Back in 2008,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: One of the very first user experiments on the I-19 beamline at Diamond was the MOF study.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In other words, while the world was still learning what MOFs were, this campus was already helping to figure out how they actually behave.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: How the pores open, how the frameworks breathe, how gases move inside them, and that's not just the headline-grabbing work.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But without it, the headlines wouldn't have happened.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It's a quite reminder that the distance between Stockholm and this room is sometimes much shorter as it appears.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, this event is the celebration of everyone who quietly makes these breakthroughs possible, and since my poster announcement successfully tricked you into believing that this is some kind of a Christmas event, I should also address that elephant in the room.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: that, yes, I did try to arrange for the mold vine, but apparently, when you work at a world-leading national laboratory, the rules are uncertainty is allowed in the measurements, and not in the refreshments.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So instead, we have gone for the advanced scientific alternative, and that is tea, coffee, and experimentally verified festive cookies.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So today is more than a lecture, it's a symphony of scientific achievements, where each of you play an essential instrument, and with that, let's meet our superstar soloists. We have our first speaker, Dr. Professor Dave Scott.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He will be giving the talk on the physiology and medicine part. So, Dave is a biophysicist who works across a remarkable range of disciplines, including immunology, bacteriology, cancer studies, and structural biology.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: A graduate of University of Leeds, he has worked at York, Oxford, Bristol Universities before moving to the University of Nottingham, where he now teaches and researches in biotechnology.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He works closely with the research complex at Harwell.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: with the Biophysical Methods Group on projects spanning the innate immune system, antimicrobial resistance, and viral infections.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Today, Dave connects the Nobel Prize in Physiology and Medicine to the real molecular machinery of immunity.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And how we explore it right here at Harwell.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Please, welcome Professor Dave.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, in addition to that, I would also like to introduce two other speakers, and then we have back-to-back talk for the three talks, and we'll take the questions at the end. So, our second speaker.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Dr. Jonathan Burnett.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He is the Deputy Director of Research and member of the NQCC leadership team. Jonathan completed his MSc in Physics at Royal Holloway, University of London, and his PhD in Decoherence in Superconducting Circuits at RHUL and National Physical Laboratory.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Most recently at Oxford Quantum Circuits, Jonathan served as Head of Quantum Hardware, Lead of Quantum Systems, and Director of Hardware Engineering.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He is passionate about taking quantum technology out of the lab and into the real world. Applications that deliver societal benefits, making him the perfect guide to this year's Nobel Prize story. So please welcome Jonathan Barnett.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then we have our third speaker, Dr. Mark Warren. He has not raised here yet, but let me still…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Maybe, perhaps I can wait for his introduction when he comes here. So, we can start with Dave first, and then we'll move on to physics, and then chemistry. So, please, Dave. Thank you.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Where's the… I'll arrange for the user can just use.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you, and due to my own encounter of autoimmune… I can move it there. Due to my own encounter of autoimmunity, I have to do this from a seated position.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: There we are.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I think this is a test.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I hope?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Just a drill.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I only touched the microphone.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Brilliant, thank you, and thank you very much for the invite, for talking.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If you swap the views, if you click on display settings?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Oh. Right.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I should be… exposed screen speed, or somewhere.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's fine.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay, thank you very much, and thank you for the invite. It's a great pleasure to present this research for the 2025 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Because this is one of those years when an absolutely fundamental piece of science with great significance has been rewarded, and rightly so. So.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The three laureates are Mary Bruncow, Fred Ramsdoll, and Shimon Sagoguchi, and they were given the prize for…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Discoveries concerning the peripheral immune tolerance. And of course, at this point, if you're not a biologist, you'll go, in fact, if you are a biologist, you also go,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's all sounding incredibly complex.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the answer is, yes it is.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I'm hoping to actually unpack some of these terms, in the initial part of the lecture, so anybody can understand what's going on here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And actually what the significance is, and what the general applicability of all these are. So…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The immune system made simple. Now.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Back in the day, when I started doing bits and pieces on the immune system, I worked on
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If you can sort of see around that sort of bottom left-hand corner, stuff to do with, what's called the innate immune system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And you'll be very familiar with the innate immune system. It's basically what gives you lots of snot, when you get a cold. It's your first defense to get everything against some kind of infection. You've got, sort of, inflammation going on. It's a very generalized response, okay? And it's keeping you safe.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And lastly, I started work also with some antibodies, which are in the bottom right-hand corner, which is to do with what's called the adaptive immune system, which is when you get some kind of infection, your body adapts to it, and then remembers the infection.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Or what that sting was. So the next time it encounters it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: it can then mount a very… a quicker response, which, of course, is the entire purpose of getting yourself vaccinated, by the way. And I shouldn't have to say, go and get yourself vaccinated, but we seem to be living in a world where that is… that has to be reiterated all the time.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then, in the top right-hand corner, we have the T cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And… Broadly speaking, this adaptive immune system is split into B cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the T cells, both of these are from cells called lymphocytes, and the B cells are called back because they mature in the bone, and the T cells mature in the thymus, which is a little gland somewhere around here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Which, if you remove it, as we'll find out, or do anything to it, has severe consequences for you.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And when I was starting out in, sort of, science, there were PhD students who were working on T cells, and you could spot them a mile off, because they had that thousand-yard stare of somebody who was doing something very difficult, very complicated, and never really worked very well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And one of the reasons for that was a huge amount in the field of confusion of what was going on, of competing theories, of bits and pieces of knowledge which weren't actually being able to be put together into some coherent network.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And one of the beauties of this year's Nobel Prize is it really has cut through a lot of that.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Which is great for future PhD students.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: but also great for us, because we now understand things a lot better.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: T cells,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: essentially recognize what's called APCs, which are antigen-presenting cells in the body, and these are cells which have encountered some kind of pathogen.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Swallowed it up, and taken bits and pieces, and displayed it on the outside of the cell.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Also, they actually look at the… they can actually see the infected cell itself, especially if you've got a viral or bacterial infection.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then it binds to it through T-cell receptors.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And through various checking mechanisms, it says, okay, go, we have a… we have a foreign body here, let's get rid of it, and it clears it from the system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, the thing is, of course, that… Uniqueness things there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: binds a unique T-cell receptor there, so you have, like, a lock and key mechanism. So you have some kind of maturation process going on.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So you have these naive T cells, which are then matured into things… into cells that can then produce… that actually recognizes things. And you get 3 broad cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: P.M.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: T cells. So this is your…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: systems, and those who are wondering, anything to do with allergies, it tends to be around here. I say that as a hay fever sufferer.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And you have…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: what's called the helper T cells, which are essentially the generals of the system. Look, there's something here, let's, you know, do something about it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The cytotoxic T cells, the killer T cells, the assassins, which bind to the thing and then kill it, but also the memory T cells, which are the historians of the system. So they're the ones that remember the challenge, so the next time you get it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You can, you can, encounter… your system will respond a lot faster.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And again, purpose of vaccination. Which also is the reason why every year we have to have a new flu jab, because the antigen changes, and so you have to get a new strain in there. And why you keep getting recurring colds? Because the cold rhinovirus mutates a lot.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So there it evades the system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But you have other things that you have, so you have vaccinations for other things, which then, when you get encountered, just goes away.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I'm of an age, where, as a small child, I had mumps, and it really hurt.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And it was very common to have mumps and measles in school in the early 70s.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Don't have that now.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Well, as long as you get your kids vaccinated.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, in all of this, the question then becomes, okay, so this is like the response system, so what's happening here?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So why do… why is this… what's happening when things go wrong?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Because… It's well known that you could… the body can attack itself. It misrecognizes things.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So there must, at some level, be a system that stops the body going too far.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Or recognizes when things have been mistaken.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So there must be some kind of checkpoint.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And this was thought to be what's called central tolerance in the thymus, that it basically, as the T cells matured, each was tested
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: against various things, and those that were found to be self-recognizing, I recognized the body.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We're taking out the system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And that was thought to be a thing, but there was a few things out there that didn't quite explain things over the years, so this led to an idea that might be something else there, a peripheral tolerance, an extra layer of regulation.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so what was proposed was called suppressor T cells, which were things that came in, okay, this thing has recognized the wrong thing, I come in and make sure that this doesn't happen.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And this… unfortunately led to a lot of confusion in the field, because A the techniques weren't good enough.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: to find these cells. And we were talking these… these are ideas from the 60s and 70s here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And B, a lot of the… unfortunately, a lot of the studies out there were later found to be technically not up to it, okay?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, suppressor T cells, as an idea in the field, fell away from the consensus. It was something that you really, really shouldn't look at, because, you know, it's been looked at before, and, you know, it was a mess. It's a complete mess.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Sakaguchi came on the sea, and he and colleagues had done… colleagues and then he had done quite an interesting experiment. And this is one of those little niggly things that we often do as scientists. You think.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: This is an experiment I did, can't quite explain, but it… hmm, yes, hmm, something out there. So what he did, he took a newborn mouse, and if you remove its thymus.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right? It then has an overactive immune system, and the mouse gets sick.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If you add… mature cells from a… sorry, it was cells from a more mature mouse back into there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: it then becomes healthy again. So there was something in those mix of T cells
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It was meant that they were not
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That was suppressing the effects of these autoimmune reactions.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And… this… one of their many ideas, let's suppress the T cells, but this idea wouldn't go away.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We kept thinking about it, thinking about it, and there were various… and it wasn't really until the 80s and 90s where the methods were developed where you could actually look at
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: what's on the outside surface of the T cells, and separate, and crucially, then separate out the different types. Now, T cells carry a receptacle CD4,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But there were some which had a receptor called CD25.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And he was able to separate out from the pool of T cells, the CD25 ones. Did the same experiments.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And this time, just adding in CD4 cells, the mouse still got sick.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But if you added the ones with CD25, The mouse became healthy again.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And these cells didn't mature in a thymus, but matured elsewhere, hence peripheral immune system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So this was a crucial thing that he'd found.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: regulatory T cells, things that were regulating
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: fatigue cell response. So that was 1995, that's a big, crucial
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: piece of evidence, and well on the way to eventually winning the Nobel Prize, but to convince the field, it took a lot longer.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, here, We next move on to our other two laureates, Mary Broncow and Fred Ramsdale.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: They were working in a biotech company out in the States, and they were looking at a particular gene associated with a particular type of mouse.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And at the time, the only place they could do their experiments
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And it had a sink big enough was the Janitor's Closet, so most of his Nobel Prize-winning time was done in a space that used to have all the mops and buckets in, simply because the sink was big enough so you could wash the cages out in.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I think as scientists, we've all been quite adaptive over the years, but not… probably not quite that adaptive.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The mouse they looked at was the scurfey mouse mice. Now, back in the day, when also perhaps ethics were perhaps a little looser, when they had the Manhattan Project, which was built here as an old picture of Oak Ridge Laboratories.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: They used to, look at the effect of radiation.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: on animals. So, quite often, they would go to these test sites for the nuclear… the atomic bombs, and place mouse cages at certain distances.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And watch… and take these irradiated mice and look for mutations.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And one of them was the SCRKI mutation, which…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Is a mouse that basically lives maybe only 3 weeks.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And has huge autoimmune responses. So when you wanted to look at autoimmune responses, you had a model there. So before, you knocked out the thymus and looked at things.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Here, you've got something that's already got an autoimmune thing, so there must be something in its genetics that's saying… that's giving this autoimmune response.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And they searched and searched and searched until they found a stretch of 500,000 base pairs.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: and 20 possible different genes that could be in there. Now.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: These days, if I wanted to sequence 500,000 base pairs, I'd send the DNA off to Source Bioscience, tell them to do some nanopore sequencing, and get across if it's not in my inbox the next morning.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: This was the 90s, okay? It was by hand. You read sequences at 800 to 1,000 base pairs. It was a long job to get to that point, which is why it took them a long time.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then they had 20 candidate genes, which they ranked, according to the ones, which they could then knock out and investigate the effects.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And… As Fred Ramsdale, admitted.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The one they eventually got to, Fox P3,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Was the last one, it was number 20.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Because when they took their educated guesses on the functions of all these things, this one, I think, but it's on there, so let's do it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And… they found that FOX3P, that's P3, was associated with these autoimmune responses.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: in mice, And what is it? Well, it's a transcription factor.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Which means it binds DNA to do stuff, so it's part… it's a master controller, of gene expression.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You have this in, and it controls the expression of certain genes. If you knock it out, it has mutations in, and you knock it out.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: then you have… you don't control the dreams, you don't get that response. It's like, going into this lecture theater, wanting to switch on the lights, and somebody's knocked out the light switch.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what they then found, next, was to look for the human holog of this, where it occurs in humans. And there was a particular disease called IPEX,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Which is immune dysregulation, polyendocracy, enteropathy, excellent. And please, please be the… Yes, that took me absolute ages to try and pronounce properly, because you… all these medical terms together. But basically, what it means is you have an overactive immune system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You have some kind of autoimmune system which is attacking, in this case, the endocrine glands.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And you have some sort of, effects, which in this case is severe persistent diarrhea, malabsorption, and gut things, and it's X-linked. So I'm carrying the X chromosome, so it affects males, okay? Because obviously females have two X chromosomes, but one is compensated, you only have one if you're a male.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And as these children didn't live particularly long, the chances of them being a male child in the carrier and passing those genes on to females is very, very low indeed.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, this also linked it to other diseases, such as type 1 diabetes, which is also an autoimmune disease, and as I'm sitting down at the moment, arthritis as well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, there are… suddenly, there was this key link between Fox P3.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: and autoimmunity.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So where do we go from there? Well, Sakaguchi did the next experiment, which was, what is the effect of FOX3P, Trejo P3, on the
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Tregs on these, these, regulatory T cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so we took what's called the naive T-cell, which is something that hasn't been there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then inserted the gene for FOXP3, and it became a regulatory T cell.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So you insert the master controller into your T cell, and it becomes one of these. So this showed…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Not only that you had
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: a gene for this, that this gene controlled everything, and also that this… the effect of that was to produce this regulatory T cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: which are part of this new peripheral immune system, which explains so much about why your systems don't consume you, but actually are well regulated. So it's this absolutely extra level of regulation there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And this cut through a lot of what was in the field, and the misapprehensions that had gone on previously, and really, really tidied things up massively.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So what's the significance of this? Well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It's a basic biology to medicine story, okay? It's not just a detailed insight to the biology, it has broad, broad implications out there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It explains… Why we don't develop autoimmune disease.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Diseases, and it clarifies why these diseases happen when regulation fails.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, it really… it had… when you think back to that diagram of the immune system, right, it…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Start to explain a whole host of those interactions, and why things occur, and why certain diseases happen in the clinic.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So what is the clinical impact of this? And the clinical impact is very, very large.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It opens the door to basically lots of therapeutic interactions. If you can manipulate these T cells, you can prevent autoimmune disease. Practically, what does that mean? Well, it's not just tolerance to things like transplanted organs, it also means a cure for type 1 diabetes.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And having a son who's type 1 diabetic, who's on a, you know, an insulin pump and a little regulator.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's a really… a really, really good thing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The other thing is its role in cancer therapy. Now, all those T cells are monitoring your body all the time, and one thing they monitor is whether cells start to proliferate too much, i.e. form tumors.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It has been noticed that in cancer cells, especially persistent cancer… prolific cancers, that Tregs are up-regulated.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, essentially, they are suppressing the effect of the immune system trying to clear the tumor.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, there is a huge amount of interest
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: in how you can regulate Tregs themselves and their levels as part of immunotherapy.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I'm starting to look at cancer cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Cancers that are far more tricky and difficult to, to look at. So, you know, pancreatic, stomach, lung, brain, etc.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Things that are, you know, Not quite death sentences, but, you know, unfortunately near as damaged terrorism.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: This has also led to about 200 ongoing clinical trials.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Here, going… looking at all the different types of, these different types of autoimmune diseases, transplantation and cancer as well. So he has not only explained basic biology, he's exploded a whole area of biotech.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: as well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: There are challenges with that. Obviously, you have an oversuppression risk.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Here, okay, you've suppressed your Treg's response. Does that mean that instead of cancer, you're going through an autoimmune reaction?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay, how do you do that?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Targeting specificity, we still have that problem of trying to find the right thing, right? And the thing about tumor cells is they are self-cell cells, okay?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Just gone wrong.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And again, the long-term safety implications of these as well, because it's very new. How we fit all those things together as well, again, is…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: A little unknown.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But, you can see how having a very, very key discovery Here, has led to
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: these, clearing up the field, which is a good thing. As I said, you know, I didn't really get into T cells, and for many years didn't want to touch them, because it was a collage and complicated field. You had to be in the know, you had to do it, you know, sort of from PhD student upwards to really understand the literature.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right? This is… this discovery has really, really
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Toned up that whole field massively, which has been really nice.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So… Concluding, really.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The… the prize reflects, really, a fun… something of lasting fundamental importance.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It's very hard, even with Nobel Prizes, to say, oh, this one's the one that will last forever. But here we've got something that is really, really key.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right? It's by the tenacity of a few people to think… wondering the experiments. Sakaguchi wondering, sort of, well, I've got this experiment, and…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: it's not explained by the standard things. Now, thing is that…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: he wasn't massively in, you know, sort of… he was in the field, but sort of not a massive star of the field when he was starting to do this, which basically means he was a scientist like the rest of us. So, you know, do you have that experiment sitting in your back pockets, thinking, I've all got this data? Never quite explained it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Sometimes, it's just rethinking others. Sometimes it's going to be complete rub because the experiment's complete rubbish, but as scientists, it's determining between those two options is really key for moving things forward.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The other thing is the real-world implications as well, that the other two laureates were able to see
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Wants not only to do the basic science, but how to apply it as well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And it's that thing… that closing, that circle of,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: of fundamental science and applied, which is important, because actually, if you've been doing science for some time, you know, all fundamental science is applied, it just hasn't been applied yet, and all applied science is basically fundamental science wearing a different hat.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, you know, and some of the best science goes on in biotechs, and some of the most applied stuff comes out of something that was quite fundamental from the university lab.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, all these things are connected together, and this is really what this prize… prize is honoring. So, I think I'm coming up to about 30 minutes, so, I think I'll leave it there, and thank you very much.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you very much, Dave.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Meanwhile, we start… set up our next speaker. If you have one quick question which can't wait, then please fire up.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Oh, I'm gonna wave it. Oh!
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yep. Regulatory T cells could be manipulated to…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: recognize cell cells, such as cancer cells, more or less. Did you also use it to recognize cell cells that have gone wrong in… well, not cells, rather, but proteins and proteins.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Oh, that's the good thing. Now, they tend…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Things that are soluble, like proteins and prions in the system, tend to be sort of more the antibody… antibody sort of response as well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: it might recognize the cell that is infected or producing that, which would be quite interesting as well. I think that would be quite an interesting thing, yes.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Hmm, yeah, interesting.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay, so then we have our next talk. Jonathan, please. The right one is the next?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Should work.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: No, I said, okay, maybe you have to use this. No? Yeah, manual.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, okay, all right, yeah, so, so just start, I think just by thanking and acknowledging, yeah, Bruce. So if it wasn't, for him putting this together, then we wouldn't have the platform where we then get to celebrate some amazing achievements, come out this year. So just to, to really thank and acknowledge Bruce for, that opportunity.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And here, so then moving on to a Nobel Prize in Physics,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So let me, kind of set the scene a little bit here. So the price of physics, this one, so we've gone for, the discovery of macroscopic quantum tunneling and energy quantization in an electric circuit. So, okay, we will break that apart in the slides to come.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: On the left-hand side, you've got John Clark. At the time of this experiment, he was the PI, so it's the professor, this is taking place inside of his lab.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In the middle, we've got Michelle Devray. At the time of this experiment, he's the postdoc in that lab.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then on the right-hand side, we've got John Martinez, and at the time of this, he's the PhD student. So, quite different to what Dave was describing of work that came from different areas, this is all consolidated in one lab, a run of experiments that happen sequential to one another.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: All three of these are really considered kind of titans within the field of now what you would call condensed, sort of, you know, quantum devices might be how you might frame it. At the time of this, quantum devices didn't exist. This is the paper that made that, possible to sort of be its own field.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: They've each all won many, many awards, and of course now the Nobel Prize is the biggest of those. And then just to finally comment, so John Clark, his whole career was effectively, at UC Berkeley.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Michelle Devereux, after doing this postdoc, he had a permanent role at Circle, and then also a professorship at Yale, before now moving to, UC Santa Barbara and Google, where he currently is. And then John Martinez, after finishing his PhD here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He went on to a postdoc in Sequel, then a staff scientist role at NIST before getting a professorship position at UC Santa Barbara, then going on to working at Google, and then finally now his CTO and co-founder at the company Colab.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What this is not is a prize in the direction of supernuts and qubits. Make that one really, really clear. This is about quantum physics to begin with.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, the paper itself, the one that's often cited is this one on the right-hand side. So then if you read that title, you've got Measurements of Macroscopic Quantum Tunnelling. So, okay, some of the words that are above are there, but what you'll notice is the energy quantization bit, that's not on this paper.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the reason for that is, if you look on the left-hand side, there's a second paper that also went into this volume of PR role. That's where the energy quantization was.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then when I mention that it's a run of papers, in actual fact, from 1984 and then going through to 1988, you'll see there's several papers that sort of further described this sequence of experiments.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, what we'll walk through is some of the physics to kind of break this down and give us the language to walk through that experiment, then walk through the key results of it, before getting the kind of what followed, and then some perspectives on, you know, quantum computing in the UK.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And all of this is really going to be driving at that second bullet point, which is when might we expect quantum behavior? Well, this is the fundamental question that the experiment was looking at.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, let's start with some cartoons. So on the left-hand side, we've got a cartoon of… there's a person. This person is trying to get a particle, so that's the sort of silver ball on the side, up and over some kind of barrier, the barrier being a hill.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And in order to do that, yeah, classically, so in the world as we typically all experience, in that one, you have to have the energy to take it up and over the hill, so the red arrow up there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what you can do is represent that with an energy diagram on the right-hand side. That energy diagram is now saying my particle, so the silver ball, that's got an energy given by the capital E, and then that's, encountering my barrier. My barrier's now got that energy U0, so the hill now is represented by this square.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: red block on the right-hand side, and unless I've got energy E that's above that, classically, I'm not able to get to the other side.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so we consider that a classically forbidden region.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If we look on the left-hand side at the lower part of that, what you've got is what looks like a tunnel, and so in this year, so 2025, this is the International Year of Quantum. This is then recognizing that 100 years ago, quantum mechanics was kind of formalized. Within quantum mechanics, it's possible for something to tunnel.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Then tunnelling shown on that cartoon, so not going by the red curved arrow, instead going by the orange across arrow.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then on our energy diagram, so what you can see is having the idea of, a particle represented by this wave function, that's the oscillation you've got on the side. It encounters the same barrier, so the dashed lines that are from the top is just saying that barrier repeats.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then it decays, so you can see that it's this bit where it stops oscillating and decays, but on the far side, it still emerges. And then what this is trying to say is you've got a finite probability that the particle is able to be on the other side, therefore it has tumbled.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So that's the concept of quantum tunneling.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Onto when might we expect something to behave in a quantum way. We can then think of wave-particle duality. So we could say, okay, a particle, electron is a particle, we know its mass, but that electron, when it moves, it happens to also take on a wave-like characteristic. Many experiments, you know, found this.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What you can describe is that from that electron, it has a mass, it has a velocity, that gives it a momentum.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That momentum I see in the bottom is then P, and then you see on the right-hand side, or about the middle of the screen, you can see I get a wavelength lambda given by H, Planck's constant divided by that momentum.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I can apply that to, sort of, two, you know, side-by-side examples and say, what if I plug in the numbers for an electron? So, something that's very small and traveling near the speed of light. I end up with a wavelength that is 10 to the minus 10. So it's small, but that's a physical wavelength, it's an atomic length scale.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I could also do this for a cannonball, so if I do it for a cannonball, I've got something much larger, clearly, you know, like a… it's not a particle anymore, and it won't travel anywhere near as fast, and I end up with a wavelength there that 10 to the minus 36.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So that's such a small dimension, it's not really a physical dimension, and the way we interpret that is to say, probably a cannonball doesn't behave in a quantum mechanically driven way.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So you can kind of think of this as giving an idea of what does or doesn't act responsibly.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What that enables me to do is to start thinking about, well, when might a system hit that kind of trans… like, that barrier? When might it swap between the two?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so here, what I could introduce is the concept of a microscopic system versus a macroscopic system. And if you recall in the Nobel Prize, this is for macroscopic quantum tunneling, so I do need to sort of explain what macroscopic might mean.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So on the left-hand side, we've got microscopic systems, and these are normally things you might think of as atoms, electrons, photons, maybe molecules.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what you could maybe kind of, you know, group them together with is this notion that you can quantify all of their properties. In other words, you know how many atoms are there. If they've got a charge, you know what that charge is. If they've got a spin, you know what that spin is.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: On the right-hand side, we've now got what I call a macroscopic system. So this is an engineered thing, it's a circuit that exists.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Don't worry about the fact it's Nobion, don't worry about the shapes or whatever that are here. The key features to draw out is it's very fuzzy. It doesn't have defined ends. You've also got lots of weird spots all over it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So what that's telling me is I don't really know where to begin in terms of counting the number of atoms that are present. I don't really know where to begin in terms of understanding, you know, imperfections if I've got stuff that isn't the same material.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: At best, I'm going to have an order of magnitude estimate of all of those quantities.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so that's how I could kind of make a distinction between something that's microscopic and I do know them, versus something that's macroscopic, order of magnitude, hand-waving estimate, that's the best that I can get.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Could I take a jump, and ask you to just join me on this jump, because I now suddenly say superconductivity, as if that clearly flows from the last slide, and it doesn't really do. But trust me, we'll get to that. So, what is a superconductor? This is something where, at some point, it will conduct electricity in a way that has no resistance.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, if I start with a non-superconductor, so copper is a non-superconductor, if I start at high temperature, so on this diagram, look at the blue line, if I start at higher temperature, so the very top part of that blue line, as I lower temperature, that resistance will decrease.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's because I've got some mechanism, probably the lattice vibrations going on, that I'm reducing, less scattering, less resistance.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: As I get to very low temperature, so the lowest part of the blue line there, what happens normally is it doesn't keep decreasing. At some point, it will saturate, so I'll see that there's some other physics that appears.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I compare that to a superconductor, so now the red line, it does the originally the same type of behavior, so as I start at a high temperature and work down, the resistance is decreasing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But when I get to some point, and that's labeled TC, at some point that resistance just drops to zero.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, you've now got a conductor of electricity with no resistance, it is a superconductor.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: A very, very old discovery, so 1911. The theory to describe and understand this, though, 40 to 50 years later, so it took quite a while to get onto this.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Here now is the cartoon that in Nobel, you know, the awarding of the prize, they come up with some material to describe this, and this is the cartoon for that.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So at the top, what we're now saying is my material, so my copper, or my superconductor, is represented by this bar.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And that bar's now got lots of electrons in it. The little white circles, these are just cartoon electrons.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The electrons are jostling, that's what gives us resistance.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In the middle ones of these, what's happened is all of these electrons are suddenly holding hands. They've all now started to pair up.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so that's describing that when you've become a superconductor, what's happened is your charge carrier has become a Cooper pair, and a Cooper pair is something that doesn't have any resistance.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That Cooper pair's got another property about it, which is that all of those Cooper pairs are able to be described in a collective way. So they've all got this description of a wave function that describes what all of them are doing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's what the bottom image is now trying to convey, in this idea that you've got the same little smiley face at the end, but it's something of this really long body, because it's just got all of the electrons inside of it. So this is the cartoon they put across.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what's the final detail to add here is that the middle one and the bottom one, you'll note that that's not just one bar, it's two separate bars, and then these two separate bars have a gap in the middle. That gap is what we would call a Josephson junction.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And it's a way of describing a situation where you've got a superconductor, an insulator, there is an insulator, it's a gap.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And a second soup nut to go next to it. So that gives you a Justin junction.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the key thing here is that that, collective wave function
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Spreads across both, so it's able to go across both sides.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the theory here, or the kind of really important question that comes out of this.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Is that it's not clear that that wave function is something that is, you know, this is many, many electrons, there are many, many, many, many electrons here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It isn't clear that that is a quantum mechanical variable.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, if we go back to our title, Macroscopic Quantum Tunneling, Quantization Electrical Circuit, this is something that starts to look like an electrical circuit.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But it isn't clear that you could think of it as a quantum mechanical object. And it was Tony Legger in 1983 who really was saying, this is something that isn't obvious, this is the theory, like, the question he posed, and then the work of 85 onwards is the experiment that answered that question.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The reason I had to go into that superconductivity Jefferson sanction is because it creates a playground that lets us try and explore that question.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So on the bottom left, we've got a circuit diagram. In that circuit diagram, the X represents a Josephson junction, otherwise, your kind of conventional notation.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the point here is that when this is biased with a current, I ain, you end up with a dynamic that looks like a particle in a well. So then now, if we look at the top, one of these plots, you see there's a little grey particle. That little grey particle
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Go backwards and forwards in the well at this frequency omega zero.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And when there's no bias, the energy landscape is just a sinusoid. So, it's just our practice of thought. So, when bias equals zero, that's what's happening.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: As I increase my bias current, I start to introduce some tilting to this, so then as we go from the top to the middle.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And that tilting, the effects of that is it means the potential on one side of this, you know, so I've got my particle going on one side of that well, I've got this potential delta U, that's got smaller.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then I can keep increasing that current until I get to such a point as the bottom scenario, and in the bottom scenario, that delta U, that potentials become zero.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The particle's no longer bound, it just starts to slide away, run away.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So this gives us a situation where we're able to start to do an interesting experiment.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So what we can have is a situation where we've got… if we start in the middle here, there's a Josen junction, we're looking at what's called the transport characteristics, it's IAV,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Start in the middle, so at zero current, I see zero voltage. This is superconductor.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: As I increase my current, so I go up the green here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And this is nanoamps, so very, very small currents. I keep on this supermaxing branch.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But then at some point, and it's labeled as IS, I then instead see a switching behavior. I suddenly go and follow this arrow, follow the blue line, and I land in a, now what's recognized as a voltage state, this is a resistive state.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So I've got something that's behaving as a very sensitive threshold detector.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I can keep repeating this sequence, and I can build some statistics, and then that helps you understand, okay, I've got this switching thing that's happening, at what point does it happen?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: With that, this kind of setup, what we can now say is.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: On the left-hand side, we understand the physics is it's a particle in the world.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: On the right-hand side, we understand that we can interpret this particle in a well as a switching event, which is the particle leaving that well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What we don't know is, is it leaving by a classical, in other words, it goes over through the red trace, or is it tunnelling, the orange trace?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so what we can propose, is an experiment
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Where you're able to say, okay, let's repeat what we've done here on the right, let's do it while varying temperature, and then start to look at the statistics of this and see, is my escape event something that is a classical or a non-classical behavior?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So that's… that's the motivation. Now on to what does the experiment itself look like, what were some of the key innovations behind it? So you're going to need a dilution fridge. So this is an experiment that happens at low temperatures, typical activity is low temperature phenomena. So the main thing of what you're seeing here, this is a dilution fridge.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: For reference, the little gold connectors at the bottom, that's about the size of the tip of my finger, so it gives you an idea that this whole experiment, is about the diameter of my fist, is how big this is.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: At the bottom, that's where you've got the sample mount, that's where the Joseph device is going to go.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then on the left-hand side here, in yellow, what is that Josim device physically? It's a thin strip of niobium. That niobium will then oxidise, so I'll then get niobium oxide on top, and then it's a second strip of lead tin that goes on top, and that's why it's got
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Not sure.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so the junction itself is going through, so coming kind of out of this, projection, going from the niobium on the bottom, through the niobium oxide, through the lead tin on the top, and then out the other side. And that's why you've got these, arrows on there that kind of goes down and then out.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The final detail to call out is the copper filters on here. They will be explained in two slides now.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: the rest of this experiment, you end up needing a screened room, so that's a giant Faraday cage, you need that to remove, RF and EMI, because in 85, while you didn't have Wi-Fi, you didn't have, you know, 5G,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: you certainly did have a lot more AM radio, FM radio, radar, and so on, so you still needed to remove those things.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Onto the filtering, so any, you know, resistor or something is going to have with it some associated voltage or current noise.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's, described by this IRMS term, so you can see that's the square root of 4 times Boltzmann's times temperature, times the bandwidth you're, you're measuring over, divided by resistance.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And if you put in conventional values, so room temperature, gigahertz frequencies, for example, I'll end up with 2 microamps. And if you remember on the data I showed before, looking at 20 nanoamps.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That would mean I won't see anything. It's all going to be washed out by electrical noise.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So I need to have some type of filter that can reduce that to less than a nano.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The type of filter that was is what's called a copper powder filter. This was a key innovation in the paper. It was really the thing that made this possible.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What they're relying on is the idea of, any AC current that ever flows through a conductor
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: has to go through, what's called the skin depth. So, in the, the picture in the middle here, you have this circle. That circle's got this red color scale to it. That color scale is effectively the current density.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So you see it's really bright on the outside, it's really dim on the middle. That's telling you that the current at high frequencies has to go on that outer edge, where the red is brightest.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So they made a filter where all of these little dots on the middle of it is them putting copper powder alongside their conducting wire.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That copper powder meant that you now had a really large surface area, and that surface area meant that you had a very high amount of attenuation at high frequencies. So, in other words, a very effective, high-frequency filter. And this really was a key innovation here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Onto their, experiments, so what's their results? So, what we're doing here is measuring a switching current, and we're using that to give us a measurement of an escape rate of a particle. That's the experiment.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We're doing that while sweeping temperature.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So the x-axis on this plot is temperature. Every one of these dots is what's that escape rate, that's coming out. If I start at the very top and I look at the black dots only.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Then as I lower temperature, I see that the escape rate keeps decreasing. It decreases in a way that's proportional to temperature. This is classical behavior, so it's the red going over the hill, type of stuff.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But as we get to low temperature, we actually see a saturation.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That saturation at first, you say, that's great. This looks like evidence for quantum tunneling. This is amazing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In practice, though, what you don't know is, is it quantum tunneling?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Or is it a noise mechanism that is still a classical red over the top of that energy barrier, but just not energy that's coming from temperature?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so the way they calibrate that out is that they apply a magnetic field, and this is in situ. That magnetic field suppresses the superconductivity. The suppressed superconductivity suppresses,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: the transition where you'd expect this to occur. So now if you go from the black dots to the white circles, which are all sitting lower than this.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That proves that their measurement sensitivity was lower, therefore the saturation you see in black is not noise, this is a real effect.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And for that reason, this was evidence for macroscopic quantum tunnel, so the first part of action.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Having shown that, what you can then say is.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Well, if I've got this potential well, so this top image, we've got, so this is kind of a slice that we've seen with it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I now know that the particle inside behaves in a way following quantum mechanics.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Well, then wouldn't I expect to see some energy levels? So, the horizontal lines that go across that, sitting in the well, those are now energy levels.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And they say, if I now expect to see those energy levels, in that case, if I shine some radiation, so some 2GHz microwave time, so the wiggly line with the HFR omega, that represents my microwave radiation coming in.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If I keep that on, then if I can tune these energy levels through that 2GHz, I would expect to see some kind of resonant, behavior here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then if we recall that by changing the iBias term, that potential landscape can swap.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, in the middle panel, and the insert of that panel, you can see you've got these squiggly shapes, the squiggly shapes are changing. That's highlighting that as I change that eye bias, I'm changing the potential landscape.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so then the data's shown now in the middle panel, the main part of it. What you've got here is a measurement of that escape rate while I'm applying that 2GHz tone, while I'm tuning the current, which is now my x-axis.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then in practice, what you see where the three arrows are is this spike that's occurring, saying, when it is possible to tune those energy levels such that they become resonant at 2 GHz, I'm seeing a resonant enhanced,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: escape rate here. In other words, I've got evidence for quantized energy levels.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So these are the two key components that under… that sort of was… what has this Nobel Prize been awarded for? It is…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: macroscopic quantum tunneling, so that's the data on the left, is evidence for quantized energy levels, that's the data on the right. The reason why this matters is that if you combine those two things together, you've now got evidence saying a artificial, a human-constructed thing, an engineered thing, a macroscopic system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: is able to behave as an artificial atom, and that's the key reason why this is so interesting.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So on to what followed. You might say.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We have an artificial atom, so surely what followed was a quantum computer.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, and that was 1985.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In practice, in the field of superconductivity, something else really, really big happened in the 80s.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, on the left-hand side, you've got another paper. That paper is to do with the high temperature transition of IBCO. On the right-hand side, you've got a plot of year versus critical temperature, so that's the temperature at which your conductor becomes superconducting.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You see the arrow pointing to that diamond in the middle, and you notice that spike as it went from something around 30 to something around 100.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right, this was one of the most exciting discoveries in all of condensed matter science.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And the idea, and lots of applications that could follow from, you know, room temperature superconductivity, or a more accessible flavor of superconductivity, this dominated the funding landscape.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So in the years that immediately followed this, quantum devices didn't yet emerge as a film. It took a bit more time.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If I look at what followed and go slightly later.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Indeed, we can get to that quantum computing, you know, kind of point here. So, at the top, let's first at least give a quick hand-wavy description of a qubit.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So we've got those energy levels, and the qubit is saying, I want to be able to manipulate the population of them.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So it's not enough to just observe them, so observing them is what happened before. I now need to manipulate when am I in the ground state versus when am I in the state above, and put myself, you know, arbitrarily between the two. That's the key thing that says I now have a qubit.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In superconducting devices, that occurred in 1999.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In semiconducting devices, so another engineered system, another macroscopic system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That happened in 2006, and so this Nobel Prize really underpins the idea that an engineered, macroscopic, you know, quantum system can exist, and therefore you could build a quantum computer based on it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That underpins the so-called engineered qubits.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What it doesn't underpin is the so-called natural qubit, so then that's where the same dynamic of how do I produce a qubit, what's the physical basis of the system of that, and that could be trapped ions shown at the top, platonics on the left, or, neutral atoms at the bottom.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And others, so just being clear on what this price relates to versus what it doesn't relate to.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Context in the UK. So, quantum computing. In the UK, this is now recognised as part of, the UK's IS8 within, the Industrial Strategy of 2025.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: A long-standing component of the UK's National Quantum Technologies Program.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And in the next 10 years, we've now got what's called Quantum Mission 1. This is the computing mission. That computing mission is for 10 to the 12 operations on a system by the year 2035.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: For reference, today, the most powerful quantum computer is maybe 1 to 2,000.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, quite a long way to go.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But 10 years is also a long time.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What this doesn't specify, though, is the modality, and again, emphasizing this is not a superconducting qubit prize, and this is not something that underpins all approaches to quantum computing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: This description does not say it must be based on the technology that has come out from this Nobel Price.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And if I think about the UKRI landscape on quantum computing, so on the left-hand side, we've got NQCC, so our focus is around trying to make sure that the government is able to act as an informed customer, user, procurer, funder.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: any of those kind of dynamics. And the way that we do that is to build capability through performing the research on those systems, know how to do the integration, know how to run applications, know how to,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Facilitate access in a computing model.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then likewise, working on, a kind of quantum-ready workforce.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In the middle, you've also got the Hartree Center, so there you've got a focus on business transformation, the adoption of computing technology in a general sense, but an emerging part of computing is, of course, quantum computing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, therefore, you can look at workflow and infrastructure development there that sits within the R2 program.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: On the right-hand side, then, there's the so-called quantum hubs, so these are networks of universities doing research. The quantum computing hub is now called QCI3, so then, like I say, it's a network of research that looks at, underpinning science and applied, research on, quantum computing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So in summary, this has really been an experiment to do with when does something behave in a quantum mechanical way. And this is the experiment that tried to… that answered that question. And what it was able to find is that by exploring the escape rates of,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: you know, a superconducting device, but this physics is not limited to a superconducting device. You could demonstrate that you had something where macroscopic quantum tunneling happened, where you had evidence for quantized energy levels collectively, this giving you an artificial atom. That's what this prize has been awarded for.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Given a little bit of perspective on the fact that not all quantum computers are based on solid-state technologies, a bit of perspective on the UK's National Quantum Technologies Program, and a final extra caveat to say.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: every time you hear quantum doesn't only mean quantum computing. So, the quantum technologies as a whole include sensing, communications, precision time navigation. So, this talk is very focused on the computing side only.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But ultimately, at the time that this work took place, quantum computing was not an established concept. This was exploring the frontiers and boundary of quantum mechanics.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so with that, we'll go back to, you know, John Clark, Michelle DeVray, John Martinez, so the Nobel laureates for this year, paper in question, and thank you for listening.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you, Jonathan. Wow, and both of our speakers have really decoded the
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: complex work, which is very consequential. Now, we do have our beamline scientists. Now, I mean, you know, beamline scientists do play things up to the edge, but he is here, so let me, take this opportunity to introduce him.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We have Dr. Mark Warren, who would be covering the work which was awarded the Chemistry Nobel Prize this year. Dr. Mark Warren is a senior beamline scientist on the chemical crystallography beamline I-19 at Diamond Light Source, the UK's national, synchrotron.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I have this, yeah.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He earned his PhD at the University of Bath under Professor Paul Rathway by focusing on photocrystallographic studies of linkage isomerism.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: After postdoctoral research at Imperial College on excited states in fluorescent proteins, he joined Diamond, where his research now explores real-time structural transformations in functional materials under light pressure, gas uptake, and electrical fields.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Mark has worked with metal organic frameworks since his PhD over the past 15 years.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: has designed specialized gas control systems to study MOFs, gas uptake, and kinetics.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, no one is better placed to connect this year's Nobel Prize in Chemistry to the science happening here on our campus, so please welcome Mark.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: All yours. I want an introduction.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Nope.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, this book is fine.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Perfect.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Well, thank you very much for the introduction, and it's been a real, kind of, honour today to talk about the, sort of, Chemistry Nova Prize 2025. And as you're saying, I was sort of juggling a kind of workshop today, so I've had to, sort of, like, come out of the workshop, and then I'll go back in after, so I apologize for not being here at the start.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, if I told you, kind of, like, in the 1980s, kind of, I was coming up with a project, that, could, kind of, like, kind of pull, kind of, clean drinking water out of, kind of, desert air. It could capture carbon dioxide, like a, kind of, giant sponge.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Or, kind of, like, be a kind of a huge kind of catalytic surface area, the size of a football or kind of pitch that we could hold in the palm of your hand.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Or deliver drugs precisely exactly where you need them as a medical device. Separate gases, be a hun… Kind of, like, a energy storage material, and, kind of, like, be a,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: kind of, like, look at disanalyze water, and also, kind of, be a sensor material for, kind of, chemicals, pollutants, and explosives. I would say, and I'm quite an optimistic person, I would say that was being optimistic. But…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: 30 years, kind of, sort of, later, kind of, like, these applications exist, and they all fall under the, kind of, the class of materials, metal, organic frameworks.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, these are two, kind of, like, three, kind of, like, electorates, and what's quite nice is they all, kind of, came in different, kind of, like, kind of stages of where, kind of, metal organic frameworks came from. So we first of all, kind of, start with the concept.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: kind of then the application and the streamline. So what I'm going to do in kind of this talk today is going to go through that, kind of, sort of process and how meta-organic Frameworks came to be.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then what I'm going to do is I'll kind of talk about, a little bit about some of the research we've done, kind of, sort of ROW, and kind of… and some… and some applications.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, this is another computer, so I'm really interested to see if the videos work, but we'll see. So, kind of, like, this is, kind of, Richard Robson at the University of, kind of, Melbourne, and he was really interested in, sort of, like, in diamond. And as many of you know, kind of, a diamond actually is made up of carbon, and each of the carbons in the diamond is, kind of, like, connected, kind of covalently to, kind of, four other carbons to meet this, kind of, tetrahedral, kind of, sort of geometry.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Oh, look at that, it does work.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Good. And what this does is this, kind of, like, this WA3 builds up to make a, kind of, like, a crystallite, crystalline, you know, lattice, which gives it some really interesting, kind of, like, physical properties. It's extremely hard, has thermal conductivity, high reflective index, and chemical resistance. And, kind of, Rich was looking and saying, well, is this material, kind of, has these properties, can we kind of alter it to, sort of, look at the different properties?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Can we make it on a slightly, kind of, larger scale?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what he went, kind of, like, did is he, kind of, like, looked towards other materials which have this tetrahedral kind of geometry.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So this is kind of like a, kind of like a organic kind of molecule, and so we've got a, kind of, methane in the center, kind of, with kind of four kind of phenyl groups, kind of, like, around it, and on the end of the, the four-four opposition, we've got these, kind of, nitrile, sort of groups, so kind of C, triple bond, nitrogen.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And as you can see, this looks a lot like, kind of like your, kind of, like, tetrahedral carbon, which is, which is in diamond.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, this nitro group can really, kind of, nicely, kind of, like, kind of,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Connect to these kind of copper metal nodes.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And if we look at the, kind of, like, we look at this, this is, kind of, exactly the same kind of geometry of the carbon. These metal nodes, combined, kind of, like, in a central geometry, and can also be built up in exactly the same way the, sort of, the diamonds can.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But, because those, kind of, the link is in between have kind of grown, we get this, kind of, kind of void space. This is donated by these, kind of, like, yellow bosom here, but these are kind of channels which kind of go in and out of this, kind of, sort of, crystal, or, kind of, or kind of the lattice. And it has a huge internal kind of surface error…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Surface, kind of flat area.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, one of the things that kind of like Irish does, is this is the first moth that's actually, can, sort of, been, can, sort of, present.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But it was fragile, and it couldn't really be used, kind of, like, as an application.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And a number of years later, kind of like, Kotelwaga, he actually kind of sort of got the first MOF, which could actually be used, kind of like, as a kind of function material.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, one of the ways he did this, and I'm going to go into this a bit later, is he introduced the kind of, like, frameworks that are slightly flexible. So instead of going more rigid to actually make these, kind of, an application, they're kind of, like, a kind of slight movement of these kind of crystals, so that, kind of, when, kind of, it could be used as gases go in and out, it kind of, like, it was able to flex around those and didn't break up as a kind of system.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So this, for the first time, made them kind of more stable, kind of porous, and kind of functional. And the real thing he did is he had the idea that actually because of this huge internal surface area, it can be used as a kind of, like, a gas storage kind of material.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And not only did he have the idea for that… actually, I'll go into the, kind of, the framework first of all. So, this, instead of these, kind of, like, tetrahedral, kind of, nodes, you've got the, kind of, metal, this actually, kind of, like, was one which used a 4-4 bipuridine. And here, the, kind of, like, kind of in the center, we've got the metal, kind of, like,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Does it work on here?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And we've got these, sort of metal nodes, and the center, which is dictated by these, kind of, sort of dark, color, kind of, like, things. And these actually, kind of, formed, instead of, kind of, like, your, kind of, 3D lasses, actually produce these, kind of, like, 2D sheets. And these 2D sheets, kind of, like, interwined with, kind of, like, ones on the, kind of, top, and, kind of, like, and the bottom.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: lattice, and again, produce these, kind of, sort of pores.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And when you look at, kind of, like, these, kind of, like, these, kind of, void spaces… spaces within this memoracle, it doesn't look like they're actually, kind of, interconnected.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But if we can sort of turn this,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If we kind of turn this around, we can actually kind of see that these kind of voice faces are kind of, like, very slightly connected down in one particular, one particular direction. But, actually, if you look at the size of, actually, kind of, like, carbon dioxide, for example.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It wouldn't be able to actually fit if this was a completely rigid material, and actually kind of shows, actually, when the kind of like carbon dioxide kind of travels into these pores, actually, there's a flexibility within this kind of, sort of, kind of framework, that actually, when the carbon dioxide goes down, can fit within these pores.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And very nicely, you can, sort of, take him from the paper, we can see that, actually, he showed that, kind of, like, this, kind of, like, graph shows the uptake of, kind of, like, carbon dioxide, against, kind of, like, pressure, and it can actually be, kind of, not just uptake gas, but it can actually, kind of, be a gas can be removed, and, kind of, uptake and removed.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Which is kind of really, really nice to see. And this really kind of paved the way, the excitement for, actually, these materials can be really useful, kind of, like, as a kind of applications.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And this, kind of, like, brings us on to, kind of, like, our third, laureate, kind of, like, Omar Yagli.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, Omeyagi kind of came, and he, kind of, sort of really streamlined the process, made this, sort of, re-commercial, and kind of, like, produce a huge number, kind of, of framework materials.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And he was kind of very interested, instead of these 4-4 bipyridine kind of ligands, but with these carbon dioxide organic ligands.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So what this is, is… I can't see a bit of up here.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, what he used is he's got the organic ligand at the kind of top.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And these organic ligands, kind of, like, through the carboxy group, can bind to, kind of, metal, kind of metal centers. And one of, kind of, the most, kind of famous work he's involved with has these, kind of, zinc, zinc, kind of, O4, kind of, like, central nodes, and to them, we're going to get attached these, kind of, carbon dioxide, kind of molecules.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So I'm just going to sort of spin that around so you can see, kind of, like, where they, kind of, like, where they are.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what happens is these can kind of self-assemble, kind of, like, into kind of, like, a jewellery action, and form these, kind of, like, organic, these metal framework materials. And this is MOF fine, and it had, kind of, like, a real step up in stability compared to all its, kind of, like, predecessors.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But what was, kind of, sort of really nice is you've got these, kind of, central, kind of, like, nodes, pattern, kind of, like, pattern wheels. We call these, kind of, sort of metal. We've got this organic linker in the middle, and these produce frameworks. And, Koyama Yagu was the first person to coin the word, kind of, like, metal, organic, kind of, like, frameworks.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what I think is really nice is actually, that this sort of organic ligard, what we can do is it's not, kind of like it's not fixed.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What we can do is, it's very easy to, kind of, either functionalize, or kind of change the, kind of, like, the shape or size of it, kind of, like, to adapt the kind of framework.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So all of a sudden, what you can do is you can customize, your kind of framework to your particular application, sort of, like, needs. And, kind of, in this, kind of, sort of particular paper, can you produce 16 different, sort of, linkers, kind of, like, which kind of either expanded those, can, sort of pause, or contracted them.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And by changing, thinking of, like, the method of node, it changes the electronic properties, so it kind of, like, it can change the card distribution, or the binding strength.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You can change the, kind of, functional groups, kind of, of all the linkers, and what this does is that you can, kind of, control the gas affinity and selectivity.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: you can change the actual, kind of, like, length, and that means, kind of, like, it actually changes, the, kind of, like, the pore size and shapes. So if you are doing… it can control the diffusion rates and storage capacity of your frameworks.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And from this, kind of, sort of point, there was a huge number of, kind of, framework of materials, which could have happened. On the left-hand corner, we've got all the different, sort of, metal nodes that can happen, and on the right-hand side, all the different ligands. And what it meant, really, this, kind of the first time, instead of making a material, and then finding out its, kind of, like, its properties in gas uptake.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What they could do is actually you can design a moth for a particular need. So if you know there's a gas of a certain type, you could use your kind of linker and the size of it to make sure it can fit just that gas fruit, not larger gases. Or if you wanted certain selectivity, you could add a functional group which you know would bind to that kind of, like, that particular gas that you're interested in.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And now, kind of, like, almost, kind of, like, over just 30 years later, there are over 120,000, kind of, structures in the Cambris, central database.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: CCD, kind of, like, DC. And, kind of, like, what's really nice is actually a vast number of, kind of, like, university departments have someone in their department which actually, kind of works on these, kind of, framework or MOF, MOF materials.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So hopefully, kind of, like, quite quickly, I've gone through the, kind of, like, where metal photographic frameworks have, kind of, occurred, from conception, application, to the, kind of, streamlining, and then to the explosion, kind of, like, in, in the field.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: what I'm going to talk about, sort of next is actually, kind of like, where are we now? Where's the science looking at, and how are we investigating these kind of science, and actually what we're doing on, sort of, that RAW, kind of, like, in particular at, at Diamond.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, one of the first, over 15 years ago now, one of the first, actually, or kind of, like, a archetypal,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: archetypal systems that I was working on, and looking at gas uptake was this, kind of, like, cobalt, bippy, kind of like a nitrate. And actually, to have a looking back at this, kind of, like, retrospectively after doing this talk, I realized it's exactly the same one as that very first, kind of, like, a moth, the cutaway we can design, design.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And just to kind of reiterate, these kind of produce these sort of, like, pores that kind of travel down, kind of, like, the frameworks. And when we've kind of looked at these before, we did sort of gas absorption uptakes. We know it absorbs gas, but what was really missing from this is actually exactly where those kind of gas molecules sit within the framework.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And if you know exactly where they can sit within the framework, or where they bind, and how they bind, and the kinetics involved with this, it means that you can kind of, like, design and, kind of make better, better materials, better function materials.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, what we did, kind of, like, on, kind of like our I-19 is we can take this, kind of, like, a kind of crystal of this, we put this on, kind of, like, our beam, and this is a crystallographic experiment, so we get three, 3D molecular, kind of, a movie of it. We can take it from, kind of, servated.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We can place it under vacuum, which kind of removes any gas kind of molecules, and then we can kind of apply the gas of our, kind of, of our choosing, and we can see that sort of going into the pores. We can either see the electron density, and what we can actually do is actually kind of model these, kind of, gas molecules within those kind of void spaces.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And we can actually there understand how they're packing, where they're packing, and we can just say, kind of, like, how much there is in there.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: More recently, over the last, kind of, like, a kind of number of years.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Before, what we were doing is we were taking one crystal, and this wasn't good comparison of the bulk material. And what we wanted to do was actually kind of… and what we found, there was differences between kind of looking at it as the bulk and the single crystal.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And one way to overcome this is actually using serial crystallography.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And so what we do here, instead of having one crystal, we do these experiments on, kind of about tens of thousands of crystals.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And we can actually kind of look at the distribution. In this particular framework, it's kind of a bit like a wine rack, and actually, kind of, as you kind of, like, apply… remove gas, it goes kind of like a… kind of… it squashes down, and then as you apply gas, it kind of fills back out, so it's a completely, kind of, sort of flexible kind of framework.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But what was really interesting when we did this experiment before, is we saw that on one Christian we saw before, and we saw an after.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But as soon as we bring in, kind of, serial methods onto this and looking at thousands of crystals, what we can see is the, kind of, real large distribution of, kind of, kind of, like, results and the spread of the distribution as it's going through that on the bulb.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Likewise, we can get, kind of, like, this is, kind of, like, a comparison of two, kind of, like, framework… flexible frameworks. At the top here is we, kind of, go, kind of, like, through, apply… apply gas to these, kind of, crystals.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: What we can see is we can see it going from one state and snapping to, kind of, like, the other state. It's either, kind of, in one, one state or state the other. And each one of these sort of red dots is a full, kind of, dimensional crystal structure, so we can fully refine it and see exactly where those, kind of, like, the, CO2 molecules are.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: But if we take a kind of related one, we can see here is this flexible kind of framework is really dynamic, because it's not so kind of straightforward, and really kind of sort of, like, there's a lot of movement and lots of distribution as it takes, takes up gas.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So what I'm going to go through is, kind of, like, kind of two, kind of, like, kind of scientists in the UK, which can, sort of, like, kind of, did a huge amount of work, MOFs, over the last, kind of, sort of, 20 years. And this is, kind of, the first segment of, like, kind of Lee, Lee Brimer.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what they've done, and this is kind of like just going into two, particular,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: kind of, like, applications, is these to design these flexible frameworks.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what's really nice about this is you can actually kind of do, kind of, like, in, kind of, sort of real time, is the separation of CO2 and, kind of, sort of, kind of, like, and methane. And each one of these, you can kind of model, kind of the crystal structure, the gas isotherm, powder diffraction, and, kind of, and neutron to get these, kind of, expertise into, like, the fine details.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And over the years, he's kind of, like, been able to iterate and refine this to be a really good separation on, kind of, sort of sides between, kind of, like, these two industrial-relevant gases.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Another kind of problem that, kind of, scientists in the UK, kind of, is a kind of Russell, kind of Russell Morrison, Andrews, and he was really interested in, kind of, a nitric, nitric,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Nitric oxide. And nitric oxide, as many of you know, is a really toxic, horrible gas, but on, kind of, like, kind of, like, low levels, actually, it's got some good, kind of, like, bio, activity.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: what work, kind of, Russell was able to do is, when he came to Diamond, he was able to, kind of, like, take a, kind of, like, his framework, which, kind of, contained, kind of, water interstart, he was able to move… activate his sample by removing that water, and then, kind of, apply, kind of, like, kind of, like, the nitric oxide, and he can actually see those, kind of, bind to the metal sites within the pore.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, what's really nice about this is actually not the uptake, it's actually the release. This, kind of, when it releases, especially in, kind of, like, kind of water-ish conditions, releases the NO very, very slowly.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what, kind of, Russell's kind of really nicely done is he's included this in a polymer to contain within needles.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And what this means is, kind of, like, as the needle goes in.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: kind of, like, instead of getting clogged over, kind of, the course of days, or kind of, like, weeks, what it means is actually the needle, because of the very slow release of, kind of, NO, it stops any clogging or any convection, so these needles can stay in for long periods of time. And this could be really, kind of, like, kind of important for example, kind of, kind of glucose monitors, kind of, for, for diabetes.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: With, with that, I'd like to kind of summarize, so moths are kind of, like, a, kind of, like, the Nobel Prize, kind of, like, three, kind of, very well-deserved, kind of, noble electorates.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: These, produce, kind of, ultra-porous materials, enabling, kind of, a number of, kind of, different applications, from water harvesting, kind of, like, to chemicals, kind of, kind of, sensing.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The impact has, kind of, gone across so many different, kind of, areas, kind of, like, areas of sight, and now we can fine-tune the, kind of, like, the frameworks for particular, kind of, particular, kind of, needs.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I'd like to thank you for listening.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you very much.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Wow, so… a big, hence, for all our key speakers, for really summarizing the work.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: We do have some time for questions, and we do have speakers willing to answer your questions, so please,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If you do remember to ask questions from the previous sessions as well, we can have now discussion and questions. So, go ahead.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah. Sorry, Jared, please go ahead.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Let me…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: just on the last talk, is there anything interesting about the optical properties of these MOFs under laser excitation? Can they be tuned in some way, or made to release the materials more easily?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yes,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, it's a really good question, and the answer is yes. So, you know, I talked about on those linkers, you can get, kind of, like, functional materials. You can put functional materials, which actually, kind of, like, can change or flip.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: within, within lines. Exactly, exactly that, and there's a couple of different, kind of, isomerases and that sort of side things. And what that means is you can kind of add gases into the freightworks.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: you can kind of flip them, lock in those gases into place, and then you can remove them all back and apply… the theory is you can remove them, and then release that at a later date when you open them up when you want to. So it can actually not just absorb it, it can come back.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Same… same talk, sorry.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Apologies to the other two. Gas filtration.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Why do I not see more MOFs in the context of, sort of, air separation units, or rather rare gas filtration?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I think the answer is the technology's there, and we've done it from… especially, for example, like, I've got a number of… there's a number of papers out which are looking at…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Cryptolog separation, and so there is, there is actually… it's going to put it in there, but it shows exactly that.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Now, I think with, you know, it's occurred over the last, sort of, 30 years, but it's still in its infancy. I think the actual applications and seeing them in, kind of, like, is going to really explode. So it's just not quite reached industrial size. I think it's not, but there are companies that are set up to do exactly that.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay, more questions?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: for physics?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thanks, yeah. I was interested in the Josephson Junction that was being used for the initial bathroom. You were describing it as having two different superconductors on either side, and I was a bit surprised by that. It sounded like a complication that you would have wanted to avoid.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I guess the best way to frame that… so, nowadays you would use, like, lithography techniques, you know, deposition tools, and, you know, you'd be able to have a lot more, kind of, process control.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In the work that's the, you know, sort of 60s, 70s, 80s around Jewish interactions,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, these were making use of the fact that when I'm saying, lead tin, I'm describing salt.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah, so what did some of these things look like? It was a blob of a, you know, some kind of superconductor, the natural oxide, and then a blob of, you know, solar applied to it, and that's the thing he was working.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So you're right to say that seems a bit better, and that's just me pointing to, you know, an experiment that's 40-plus years old. It's certainly not how you do it today.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Another Josephson Junction question.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Has there been… I've got two, actually. Does it matter how thick the insulating layer is, number one? And number two, if there were a classical movement.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: through that insulator, what would that actually look like, rather than the quantum tunneling?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Right, so the first one,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: On the example shown, I was saying 2GHz was the frequency.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You can calculate what frequency you expected that to be based on the Josephson Junction characteristics.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then your question of what if the insulator was bigger, you would be able to model what that would mean for those characteristics, and it would just change the frequency. That's the simple answer first bit.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The second thing, saying,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: what if I've got something that isn't a Cooper pair that's trying to tumble? This has got some… perhaps, you know, it's a normal, bit.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, there's many, many quick steps that I took through that description.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: One of them is that when I showed an equivalent circuit diagram, there was an X for a junction that had a capacitor and had a resistor.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: The reason that the capacitor and the resistor is in that circuit map
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: is exactly the… what you're pointing, which is that, in practice, not every electron has formed super pair.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, in a real system, I've always got some leftover number of electrons. Those leftover number of electrons, you know, if I'm applying some biases in something, they are also seeing that, and they are going to slow them.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So there's always what you're describing happening.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And then you model that in a circuit parameter that says, okay, there's a resistor to the side, because I've always got some conventional electrons that are seeing the insulator as a resistor within their capacity pump.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I can follow up.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: See you later, I'm asking. Does…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: let's say you just go thicker and thicker and thicker on the insulator. Is there a point at which you cannot apply a frequency high enough for that tunneling to occur?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You… yeah, okay, so… So, one of the things I didn't convey,
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: when you've got a zoo conductor, you've got two characteristic length scales at play. So, these are what you call the penetration length and the BCS coherence length. Jargon, I apologize.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: These are telling you the length scales over which the superconducting, like, the wave packet can live for. If your insulator gets too long compared to that, then it's not possible to sustain a superconductor.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: in practice, that's, it's on more than nanometers, typically. But it's also an extra valve that scales with the TC, inverse
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So… when I showed the example of high temperature super factors and Ibco.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In that scenario, yes, you could make a grossing junction, but your junction is a, like a crystalline defect.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, in other words, the Memph scale has become so small, it's now less than that.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: In the case of a lower TC material like aluminium, it's possible for that to become
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: No questions?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Hi, I have a question for… with regards to the Biomed.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Nobel Prize?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you so much for the talk, it was very informative. I just had a question with regards to the application of the FoxP3 gene itself, because
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: if I understand correctly, you mentioned that when they
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: not in the gene into the T cells, they… the 9 T cells, they matured.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And I was wondering how… We could use this specifically with the applications.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: of the T regulatory cells, because you mentioned that we could use… the two regulatory cells.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: to target different kinds of cells in medical applications, but with regards to the FOXP3 discovery itself, how would this work? Oh, sorry, this question is confusing. That's fine.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: It's been noted also that the FOXP3 gene is dose-responsive as well, so if you have one copy, you get certain… if you have two copies, you get more.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, it's possible to tune it.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Okay. So, to a certain degree as well.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: And obviously, there's going to be mutations, even natural or made artificially, which are going to affect its affinity and what it does. So…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: There's quite a… it's quite a wide open field.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thanks, more questions?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I'm very questioning.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Can the FOXP3 gene turn on and off in an individual's lifetime? Is it a gene that can be expressed at different times? As in, why do some people only get an autoimmune disorder when they turn 35?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Good question. Quick answer to that is, no, don't know.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I'm trying to think of… So, yeah, but…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Any more questions? Here in the room.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Anybody from the Zoom?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: If you'd like to ask something, please do unmute and shoot.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Looks like not, so… Let's thank our speakers again for really exciting.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: they have really decoded the complex subjects in a very simple manner, and we have coffee and cookies outside, so let's please join for the discussion there. Thank you. Thank you very much.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Thank you, thank you.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: So, you don't need to understand.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: pellet-type material.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You… you can make that? Yes, I can't. Okay, that's the problem. I think that's… this is the… this is the… where's the chemistry… where's the chemistry department that we're thinking for me? I'm not sure of the name. Yeah.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: He'd be a really good person to ask. Thank you. Thank you, guys.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Sits on the ground.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Either of these way?
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: You didn't work for one of the worst, cool.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Yeah. If we can reduce the energy. Please do join. Somehow, it's worthwhile trying to… Science, science adding science, like, that's…
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: Somebody lost the agent.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: That's an incredible thing I've done.
STFC-RAL-Pickavance LT R22 G.02: I will put you in my contact email.