STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, welcome to today's seminar. Kate is very well known. Let me read a short introduction, maybe for things you didn't know. Kate is currently with University of Sussex, and she's working on the Atlas and the Dune experiment. At Atlas, she worked on the top part.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and it takes physics, and diagnostic caliberation and determination. She's passionate about physics outreach and communication, and diversity and inclusion. She was the coordinator of Atlas Outreach for 5 years, the Atlas Diversity and inclusion.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: contact for 2 years, and is currently on York Sullivan Day project.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: which she initiated in 2014. She works to bring Atlas and dune science and technical skills people
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: in the public and high school students through various outreach and communication initiatives. In addition, she's a staff scientist at the International Center for Theoretical Physics at Trieste, Italy.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Where she has worked since 2010, and founded and coordinates now the ICTP Physics Without Frontiers program, which aims to promote physics in developing countries.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, let's see what we will… you're going to tell us today. Welcome.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Great of an extensive introduction, thank you. So, yeah, my work at the University of Sussex and the International center for the Air School of Visits.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And my physics is an atlas for almost 20 years now, and more recently on June. But what I'm going to be talking about today is my work with the ICTP and with UNESCO promoting physics worldwide.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so for those of you that don't know the ICTP, because it's not a theoretical institution and an experimental institution, so not everyone would have heard of it, it's the Atlas Salaam International center for Theoretical Physics, founded by Atlas Salaam, of course, in 1964, and it's situated in Trieste in Italy.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And he basically built it, to support scientists, outside of, the kind of western side of Europe, so it was all… it was to encourage cooperation between North and South.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it's also where the Iron Curtain was between East and West during that time.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so it's an institute, it has these, kind of, main areas of research, and say the preliminary, areas is theoretical, but I joined in 2010 on the Atlas experiment, so we were the only, kind of, experimental particle physics group, at the ICDP.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: They do a lot of conferences, and workshops, and they specifically fund you if you're a scientist from a developing country, so you can come and attend things and send posters.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And they'll give talks, and they also have a bunch of different programs. The kind of flagship one is the RCTP Diploma Program.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's for pre-PhD, so if you're from, a country in the developing world, you can come and do a one-year, very high-level, diploma program. It's kind of the same degree as what I studied in, like, the first year of my PhD, so it gets students very prepared for going into PhD. They also do master programmes, sandwich, that, for example, opportunities as well. Lots of great PhDs there.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You can also see their scientific calendar and apply to current workshops.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And conferences. Okay, so…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, I joined ICP in 2010, and my work, along with doing quantum physics and work on Atlas, was to look at how science, and physics in particular, can support sustainable development.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, you might have seen these before. These are the Sustainable Development Goals. They were put together as a goal towards 2030 of what we want to achieve.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's quite interesting at the moment, we're, I think, just over halfway through. It's about 2025, and of course, we are doing quite well on some of these things, but very, very poorly in lots of other areas, and some of them are going backwards.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So the kind of point from the Sustainable Development Goals is that all countries and all income levels want to go towards this green and digital economy.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And where we come in is how does science play its part? So science, an investment into science in all countries.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: is an accelerator, for lots of reasons I'll go into. The reason it's an accelerator is to help achieve these goals. So you want to be investing into science, scientific institutions, labs, scientists, in every country, and it's really a point to be pushed, especially with lower-income countries, which often don't
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Are we toxic science research?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So at the moment, around 8 out of 10 countries devote less than 1% of GPP to research, so they're really pushing for countries to devote more funding into R&D.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So I don't know if you can see these plots, I don't know if I can either, but, UNESCO released publications which are really interesting, and they show loads of great data. You can go on the website, and they have science reports every few years. This is showing the global share of GDP, so…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This is, shown for the European Union. This is, you know, slightly different metrics. It's, like, how many researches they have, how many publications.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: people had. It is really interesting data to look at, and the main takeaway is you have places like the European Union, USA, China investing a lot into these things, and you can show a kind of correlation between investment into R&D and, kind of outcomes in the economy.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so there's a push, for more countries that have lower,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: investment into R&D to invest more. These plots are kind of showing the time, so going from 2008, 2018, these should be, updated, towards 2028 soon, but maybe for a few more years. But you can see places like the USS, sorry, China have really upped their investment into R&D.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, why are we investing into sustainable development through science? So, by investing in scientists and scientific and educational institutions, this supports the sustainable development goals to solve environmental and fundamental problems. So, again, this has been shown through their reports.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it's shown that if you invest into education, and if you invest into research, this helps grow your knowledge-based economy, which supports your economy, overall.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And really, I mean, this is good for us, right, because we want to say you want to invest into universities and scientific institutions.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Because this is clearly shown to drive the improvement of education, so it improves the level of education at primary level, at secondary level, at all set up stages, and improves scientific literacy, which is good for the population overall.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: When we come in, we have fundamental science, and that's often more difficult to motivate than the implied scientists.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But, you know, just from a fundamental side is really important, and we're doing, you know, things in mathematics, we're doing things in classical physics, because we're a strong backbone that helps also, of course, train the next generation of physicists and engineers and mathematicians
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: are doing to apply science, innovation, and supports in the end, sustainable development. And there's many areas of sustainable development, as I show that comes from fundamental science, you know, into quantum, into areas that we work in.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, how does science address global challenges?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So these are kind of overview, I'm not going to go into all of them,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But one of the key things you can… we can work on through science, obviously our research is the main way, but one of the things we can do is a lesson to open science and open data, so I will talk a bit about that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Doing outreach education, supporting education of teachers, really supports scientific literacy, and that's really important all around the world.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: The impact of international cooperation, which I'm not going to be talking about today, is really… it can't really be over…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: emphasize. International cooperation between places like CERN, bringing together many different member states and many different countries around the world to cooperate through science is really impactful. There's other international centres everywhere, for example, Sesame.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, you have nice diamond citrichon here, sesame is a nice citrichong in the Middle East and Jordan, and that brings together many
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: countries in the Middle East, including many that are not normally very good friends, but this kind of soft diplomacy is actually much more impactful, than… than we really realize. You also have soft diplomacy using, like, sport, things like art, but through science, bringing together institutions and governments to collaborate through science.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: is really impactful. It could support,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Towards labor freedom and peace and justice.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then finally, science must be for all, so this is a bit more about where physics volunteers come in, and the importance of EDI. We need to make sure that it's not just for a privileged few in the world to be able to engage in science, it's for everybody and all people, whether you're scientists or not, to have access.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So just a couple of words on open science. This is something I've spent a lot of my career working in.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So open science is really important and impactful. It's something that we are… it's been gaining momentum, UNESCO have invested a lot in it, and the movement. And what we do, often, we do make a lot of our publications open now, a lot of our journals are having access to everybody.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But we… and we've been working on open data, which I'll talk about.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But these are some of the reasons for open science. Of course, it helps bridge the gap between the Global South and the Global North, so that all people can access and exploit scientific data.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It helps equal opportunities for all so that young people and all citizens can access data and learn scientific outcomes.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then it's really important for societal needs. So, in lots of areas, like in health and architecture, in agriculture, it's really important.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it's really important when we think about local and global issues. When we're thinking about local issues, you need local scientists, so you can't just say, well, this person in this country is doing research, and so they do it. We can't afford to do it, or we don't want to spend our time with that. Actually, all countries and all areas need to have these kind of skills to deal with local issues.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then we have global issues, such as pandemics and other, you know, climate change, where we need to collaborate around the world and get everybody's input.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So just a word map, so the data, so this is something I've worked on for over 10 years, and so all the certain experiments now have open data available to the public. Some of this for research that's, you know, very much an issue our raw data that we release.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But of course, that kind of data is really important to exploit unless you're a theorist or another experimental physicist. So we specifically, and Atlas, have spent a lot of effort over the last 10 years making it accessible to everybody, so you don't have to be a theorist.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: or a physicist to be able to access the data. So, if you haven't seen it, the CERN Open Data Portal, you can come and get data from Atlas VMS, all different types of online, all different types of experiments at CERN.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But if you come to our website for Atlas Open Data, we've got loads of different ways of accessing the data. It's used a lot for teaching, for undergraduates, or 16-year-olds for outreach.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We have a lot of these, this, like, an interactive online histogram analyzer, where young people, so if you don't, you know.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So to be able to program with Python is really useful, and we've got lots of tutorials in Jupiter notebooks that allow people to do analysis, learn about statistics, learn how we do optimization, and even machine learning and practical physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But for young people, if you want to do outreach with high schools or general public that aren't really strong in Python, we also have these histogram analyzers. I've got another picture on the next one.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: No, a histogram analyzer has got another one for machine learning, where people can learn about machine learning, or learn about customization, just using your mouse. So this is interactive, you can apply your cuts with your mouse, and find a disposal, find TT bars there, maybe, like.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Oops.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so I'm going to focus more on the kind of this last effort, which is physics for all. So what we're passionate in with Physics About Frontiers is helping to build the next generation of scientists around the world.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, this is often to do with the difference between richer and poorer countries, so in level of income. So, of course, we know we're in a rich country. Many rich countries are very privileged, because we get a lot of access to science funding.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And of course, that means we have the lion's share of scientists, funding, support, conferences.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the benefits we have are huge when you compare it to scientists from other countries, so this is a very good and old friend of mine, Wakapata, who is a university. I went to work there in 2013 as a visiting lecturer for about 6 months, working with her and the department there.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so this is an example, but it's very much seen in universities around the world.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, when you're in a university such as Biz 8, there's no time for research. Your time is completely given towards running the university. Often the government and university don't see physics as research. They don't see that that's something that comes out, it's like a teaching environment. So there's no research balance. You know, Wafa has a PhD from Oslo in phenomenology.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: She could be doing, research. She does do some, but it's in her own time, because there's just no access to research grants in Palestine, and there's almost nothing internationally. So, if she wants to apply for funding, where can you apply from?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So it means that WAFRA and many other scientists are just stopped in their tracks of doing great research, progressing our scientific knowledge.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And of course, you can't travel conferences and go to workshops, so we can go places, present our work, network, you know, build new collaborations and write papers. We've got funding to go to conferences.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Then you're, again, just completely isolated, and then people aren't going to come join to you, so it just really stagnates science, and that's not really very useful for anyone.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, of course, yeah, so there's the list, they lack resources, universities lack investments.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: No access to funding, and then this affects students. So students in our universities, you know, when I was in the University of Liverpool, I got involved with Atlas because Liverpool were working on Atlas, and I could work with a scientist, and I could do my master's project on it, and then I could get a PhD.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If you're an excellent student in a university that doesn't have research, you don't get these opportunities, and you could go on to, you know, really contribute to science.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But you can't, because you don't have that same access. And this, in the end, really, as a scientific community, costs us valuable scientists.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So physical frontiers is the topic I was going to talk about today, so it's a program
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It was founded in 2012, actually, with Palestine was the first project we went to, with some colleagues. Muhammad al-Roup, some of you might know on Atlas, he's at Bori University, and two other Palestinians.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: working. So the project's really about empowering people from, universities, or from a country with universities that aren't engaged in research to do outreach, and to give those students exposure to research to provide the network and the collaboration.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, we run schools, workshops, all sorts of things I'll talk about.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And we work to inspire and motivate the next generation of students, do training and education. A lot of it's really about collaboration and networking. We gave… I was in Thailand a few weeks ago, teaching at university, and it was myself and a Thai cosmologist teaching, and obviously the students got great experience learning about classical physics and cosmology, really.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But it was actually really the impact of having the students all coming together, talking about physics, talking to me, myself, and my colleague about opportunities, and connecting them up to the scientific world that they get a bit isolated from.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So really the networking collaboration that has the biggest impact, and the training is just the kind of nice thing that goes longer. Obviously, the training's really good, too. And then, top students, we mentioned on first study, this is really important, so many students
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: go on through our connections to the entrepreneurs study, then many of them come and work with ICTP to do more projects.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: yeah, I kind of just reviewed these things. We want to expose and introduce, like, areas of research they haven't got access to, because they haven't got that kind of research at the university. Mentoring top students. Oh, and we also try and work with the universities to help them with getting awareness towards, the importance of physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So this means maybe organising an outreach event, getting students to approach for a session and invite to the VCs, so in Thailand again, the VC of the university, lots of people came to see the students' presentations at the end, and this helps momentum towards them, saying, actually, physics is really useful and really impactful in our university, let's invest more into it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This is Tazneem, so she was one of my first students back in 2013.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: in BSA University in Palestine. She was absolutely incredible, like, amazing physicists, and she went through, you know, the whole channel. She got access to summer school, and you see, every time you get one of these opportunities, that leapfrogs you to the next one. So just getting off the foot in the door for students, I believe they can show how good they are.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So in summer school, then she got her,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a PhD in, Solis, in, Paris.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then, now she's a postdoc and, you know, quite well established.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, who organized our project? It's all of this a bit blurry. Sorry, this is Ibrahimaba from John Hopkins University.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So he's one of our volunteers. So we're a volunteer network, which are scientists all over the world, predominantly from the Global South, so most people that, do the projects are… so this is, Ibrahima from, Senegal originally. So we work with scientists from the countries, and they bring their international friends, of course.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so the teach… we often like to work with younger people as well, just because younger people are best at having the enthusiasm and, also just good role models for their undergraduate students.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So we have over 100 volunteers, many of them have been working with us for years, really not just running, like, a week-long project, but really throughout the year, keeping contact with students, working with universities, doing a huge amount of work.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And I should mention, yeah, our audience is undergraduate, so why is that? So when you're in somewhere like Palestine, you're going to have a group of undergraduate physicists. They really like physics, right? There's so many other things that they'd be thinking about for me too, but they're already really engaged. We're not trying to just, like, inspire people to take physics. These guys love physics, and we've got loads of potential.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So we want to support them.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it doesn't have to be becoming a physicist, it could also be what kind of things do they need to go into industry. We do CV workshops, and we do… well, I specifically do about training data science and sharing other skills they can get to go into industry.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So they are our target audience, because there's just so… there's so much potential there. All they need is a bit of networking, a bit of support, a bit of mentoring.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so here's just some screenshots of some of our
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: volunteers. So, as I say, they're always, they're often young people, but, you know, everyone's invited, they bring, their international friends. I really like this picture, because this is from Gaza a few years ago, and it kind of shows the circle of volunteer scientists.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So this is where I was at the Islamic University of Gaza. This is Muhammad al-Asi, and this is… oh, I think I forget his name. But they're both… this is a long time. They're both, came to ISP. In fact, Muhammad was the first Gazan to come to ICCP. It took, in fact, two years to get him out, because it's a very complicated process.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it came for a master's, at ICTP. And then, and then, so both of them are now at ICTP, and they are, you know, were at the time doing their master's, and diploma program, and this is us doing a program the following year.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: With each group of students, and they're there giving a virtual, kind of, talk about their experience, what they had to do to get out, what they, had to do to apply. This is, this is, Muhammad Abujabi. Actually, now he's in the UK working in industry, just near me in Sussex, in Croydia, somewhere. But he was just a young student there, really good student, and he, we supported him to get a medical physics master's.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: over ISTP, he voted his PhD in Italy, and now is working in industry in the UK, which is great news to us.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, this is another of our student, Sirhad, who, again, was really successful. She did the Southern Summer School as well, and went on to a PhD in the UK. And, now both of these work with us to do more projects in Gaza. So, because they love the program, because they're induced, it gives them lots of motivation to keep the network
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And work towards, you know, supporting their colleagues and students.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, there are a couple of case points. Okay, so here are some of the projects we do. So we do lots of different things. Every project we do is completely different, depends on what we're going to do.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and what they want us, you know, what… everyone is very different, but just in general, we do things like courses in particle physics, sorry, courses in theory, this is to have doing some particle physics in the world there. We do a lot of hands-on analysis training, so that's a thing that I do personally, which is with Apis Open Data, so I've been spending these 10 years
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Also creating a load of, online
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: tutorials, educational, material. This is using Masterclass.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: software, which was developed actually way before my time, which is a really nice way, again, students can do analysis without doing coding, but we have the whole process, as I say, all the way up to machine learning. It's all free and available on the Advocacy Data website. It's really useful, again, because if we want to teach students about, you know, Python programming, or using, you know, doing analysis skills, again, just learning things about statistics is just such a useful tool.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We also sometimes do hardwares, this is Namibia. Can anyone guess what this one is we use it for?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: These are cosmic ray detectors. This is just a nice piece of scintillate, I just love the color. You wrap it up with tinfoil, you attach the end here to a PMT, and then when cosmic rays go through, it get a little bit light, and then you can read that out, and it's a great… so we did this with master students in Namibia, and then they did some projects for the next couple of years.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We do… pre-COVID, we did loads of online programs, and now we do a lot more.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This is with a Bhutan.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: during, I think, 2020 or 2021, right during COVID. We did, you know, online lectures, a lot of stuff with open data, again, giving them notebooks. You don't want to just give lectures online, it's too foreign. We're giving them, work to do, and this is the last… this is a screenshot of me, there's me here, of them giving a poster session of their analysis they did with open data. And we've done much more work with them since, as we have started
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Kind of the core thing we do is, of course, schools, so that means one week, two-week long, you know, just two or three lecturers, we don't…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, we don't have lots of funding. We'll come and basically two or three weeks, sorry, one or two weeks, train the students in a specific subject, and this is soil science. So we cover all areas from physics and this area to mathematics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then lots of… just, you know, transferable skills.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so here's a kind of screenshot of a bunch of countries that we work with. We worked with over 50 health council at the end of this year, but over 50 countries.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, yeah, so what's our focus? So, you know, in general, it's low-income countries. Anywhere that's got money to run this themselves, they can go do it themselves. We focus on countries that, haven't got very much funding.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But we also have, kind of, focus areas of places that specifically need more help.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So one of them is countries in conflict, which I'll talk about, or political turmoil. The reason this is important, because they often, you know, science in almost everybody else's way, everything's so complicated.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we can't work with you right now to know what to do. But that means that, you know, each generation student is going to university, they don't get any… any kind of motivation or any kind of training. So, specifically, we need to reach out to those when they're going through these tough times.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then, of course, we care about underrepresented groups inside, so that, of course, means women and girls all over the world. Also means rural or remote areas, and it can be in lots of different countries, unrepresented groups means different things, depending on your culture. So it could be things like unrepresented ethnicities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: There's just some nice pictures. So, we work with over 50 countries. We run around 25 to 30 projects every year. We have hardly any funding, so funding is something we're always trying to stretch. Basically, it's all, like, volunteer-driven. We work with the university, we get the university to put some money in. We hope the volunteers, if they work with a, you know.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a university that's got some funding with you paying a split, so everyone gets a tiny bit.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: to have a really impactful project, okay? The outcomes of these projects are great. So this is us, with Andrea Banker, if any of you know him, in, Utahan, and South Afghanistan, Morocco, this is, Kenya, this is doing quantum mechanics in Burkina.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Basso, and this is Astrophysics in Langkok.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so I wanted to just show you some of the projects.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So the first one I'm going to show you is because CUDA
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This guy here works at Diamonds, who I'm gonna meet him later on.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So he works today, he's originally from Zimbabwe, so that's our, kind of, ideal person to work with. So he worked with two of his friends, Hilli and Gideon, who are also from Zimbabwe, but working in South Africa.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so Cooper's a very good scientist at Diamond. He's been doing, you know, exit work. This is me with Simone coming to visit earlier in this year. We never really mass tour around Diamond. I work a lot with Sesame, so I'm trying to learn more and more about, synchrotrons and why they're so wonderful and important.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So they did this fantastic, these three, roadshow around Zimbabwe. These are just a couple of photos for these students to raise awareness about synchrotron radiation. So I don't think if you're aware of it, this little logo here, they want to build a synchrotron in Africa. There's not one at the moment, so…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: if I remember very well, there's quite a few in Europe, a lot in France, a lot in Italy, and then loads in the US, quite a few in India. There's not actually very many else. There's one, of course, in the Middle East, Sesame. There's none in…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And we know it's really important, because it has a huge amount of different types of things.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But they're very expensive, and so CUDA, along with a lot of other people in the international community, are trying to have this African light source, and one of the proposals is in Zimbabwe, or at least having Zimbabwe part of it. You know, it might probably be in South Africa at the end of days.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But if, you know, if you're going to build this thing, we need to have scientists. So we need to get more young people going and doing their Masters and PhD in 6 from radiation, coming and working in diamonds all around the world, so they get trained up, so that if we can build this one, they've got time. Science is the first thing you always need in order to do any B6.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, and then, yeah, another thing I want to highlight is, of course, quantum computing.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: That's really important, as we know. It's an uncontrollment here.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So there's no here, but in lots of, areas around the world and the UK, they're attracting lots of funding, let's say. So that's where the funding is going very much towards at the moment. And so lots of countries that are looking towards that. We've got a project next week with Costa Rica, Honduras and Guatemala together.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: doing a project for Quantum to, again, get people together and to take advantage of this big, you know, big push around the world, and a lot of funding is going towards quantum computing. So this is a project we've been doing for SATO for many years. They're fantastic, they're…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: One scientist from Rose from South Africa, originally from the Sofu.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so I kind of covered this already. So, yeah, our kind of frontiers, when we say business about frontiers and moving borders, we mean these kind of economic frontiers, social frontiers, geographical frontiers. So geographical frontiers is a really big deal.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: that even if you're from India, it has lots of different, you know, great science going on, you know, lots of very good research institutions. If you're really far away in a rural institution, or you can't really travel very easily because of geographical frontiers, you're getting that access to science. So these are all other important things to think about when we're outreaching to new places.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So I'm just going to talk a little bit about some of these places. So…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Rural and remote areas is something we're really passionate about. Again, like, if you go to the Philippines, they have some really good, universities in the main capital city. But if you're a young, amazing.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: young scientist, but you're on one of these islands, you're going to absolutely lack access to science. So this is one of the projects we did in the Philippines. We worked with the main university in the capital, and we ran these… it was online, of course, and we fundraised to get the money so they could have no jungles.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: because the instrument collection is an issue, right? So all these people could apply to look vulnerable that would come to the post, and they would have these physics meetups.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And they were really successful. So they had… we had hundreds…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Around 500 come on Zoom, but it was also on Facebook Live, and thousands of people watched it. So, obviously, it was for these students, but anyone from… any student from the Philippines, could get access, but these students we gave the don't too.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And they got scientists, it wasn't… well, it was physics, actually, but they got, yes, scientists and physicists from, you know, quite well-known areas, some matter scientists, et cetera, to give these talks. They're really impactful.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Another area we work with that's quite remote is in Nepal.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, we work with, Sior Spethner, I don't know if anyone knows him, he's from Atlas. He's now well decorated, he's won a lot of awards, scientists in the US.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, I worked with him and Abba, his wife, have also worked in communication and visits at CERN, and this is Mario Pappadeli, if anyone knows him from Atlas, and Ajita, who's also now police chief at CMS. We worked for about 6 years, going every single year.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: to Nepal Burdenly Schools.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We also did a lot of outreach work, so we went to Sister Sue York here at his old school. You couldn't imagine how many young people there were. And we went to a lot of these places, so we went to all of these old schools, we bought the resources, places, etc. And,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, the outcome's been absolutely brilliant, so we're still doing two or three different projects with them. It's… they've got so many great scientists there now that we're… everything's…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: everything's working from, from Nepal, so we don't even go out there anymore to see all ghosts from time to time. And these are some of the students, so this is, Yadiv, at the, at CERN, and, this is another student who is now doing his PhD at CERN, and these are some other students who've gone to study.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: loads of students coming out. They're actually really strong in mathematics, so, they kind of take physics quite easily.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, another place you mentioned that's quite remote is Bhutan, so that's remote gather, if anyone's trying to go there. If you don't know where it is, it's, kind of, so there's, like, Nepal, and this is India, and then it's just, like, a little bit of India, then there's Bhutan, a tiny little country in the Himalayas, basically.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, we had an absolutely amazing, wonderful place. I actually went… I've been working with town. As I told you before, we did the first two projects online in 2022 and 2023. This is pictures from our online projects. And then we went last year in 2024 in person. These pictures.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And we taught 90 students, over a week in article physics, data analysis, and machine learning. And we had, there was only 3 of us teaching, but we had
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: With 3 floors of 30 students.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: on the computers doing this analysis. It was brilliantly, all great presentations at the end, again, all the top university people came, and they did absolutely amazing work. So it's been really successful. We've already got two students that have gone on to a further study, and the professor we organized it with, so the professors here, they all have
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Well, I think none of them… I think one has a master's, and the rest just have undergraduate degrees. So we worked, with whom?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: No. So we worked with the main professor there, who's now doing his PhD in renewable energy in, actually, in Triads, or at Udin University, in Italy. So he's, hopefully then going to be able to come back. As a PhD, really help develop the Bhutanese, because it's only one university.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's really nice for us to work with a country where there's only one or two or three, because you can really build community together.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So obviously an undirected group everywhere in physics is women and girls.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's really, women go to a little bit subtle issue, because, of course, in every country, it's about your culture, and that's different at every place, and it's very sensitive.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, in different countries.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We did a lot of work in Nepal, for example. Here, Ajita and other, ABBA, for example, we organised a whole day about women in science, and they did, you know, a really good job. We were just kind of nearby, but everything was in the local language, so we didn't really understand. But it does get quite heated.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Because people feel a bit attacked, like, you know, you're trying to change our culture, you know, and the power's a problem with education women in general, so some of them do things high school, many do might finish high school, but university's just nailed down with it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so, you know, when, you know, Abraham and Adjutsu who've been working over in Europe come over and say, hey, we need to change this, it can be difficult to, you know, you can touch people nerves a little bit. It's just such a difficult thing to do, because obviously we want to do good things without certain people. So they've been working for years, so supporting young people. This is one of the students from the pool, she's now doing her PhD medical visits. So lots of great things do come out of it, but
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: The common point is it's a delicate and difficult subject.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And you've got to work with the local, community
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: To work out, okay, how can we work with the cultural norms to address this?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So one of the projects we did to support women and girls in South Africa, so this is a project I did back in 2018 with Sahal, with an activist, and who knows him at the University of Cape Town.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so this was a communication project, so this is the only time I've done something like this, this kind of project.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And the idea was, there was a big issue in South Africa, and, the Institute of Physics there said, just, we need to improve the number of women girls, how do we do that? And so we're like, obviously, we can run forces, we can do this and the other, but we actually thought, why don't we run a space campaign? So we made these seven spaces of just seven women across South Africa.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So I got inspired from this, I don't know if anyone remembers, but when I was at school, I remember on all the, like, kind of chemistry doors, these posters that used to say, not all chemists wear white coats.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And there'd be, like, someone climbing a mountain, there'd be, like, a diver in the sea, all these different cool people doing cool stuff. It didn't make me want to be a chemist, but it made me think, oh… but it made me think, oh, that's cool! I now think chemists are all these different types of people.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so that inspired this exact same thing, so that we made these posters, we went out on location, so this is Tanya, this is the SKA, Northern…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: South Africa, where she works. This is, Rodhana coming, who she works on, but she was inspired by books, reading. So this all has, like, a little quote that's kind of supposed to be inspiring, inspired by my father. This is Adriana, so she does…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: What's she doing?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: like, quantum biology, he wants to go to Mars. This is Mark Shuttleworth, he was the first South African to go to space. This is his actual shuttle, lovely when we've got some photos. This is Helen, who's, we just didn't have old school.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Hesper, she does a medical visit, so this is Table Mountain, and it's, like, an inspirational place near Cape Town, Eagle, and, Passover.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so we printed these and sent them to high schools around South Africa, and the idea being young girls and young boys would just see these and just think, oh, science is full of all these types of people, and just slowly, hopefully, eventually, change people's ideas of what physicists.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: looks like.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, working in the Middle East is really interesting, working women and girls, because they don't have the asymmetry that we do at undergraduate level.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: In an undergraduate level, in almost all parts of the Middle East, in general, there's more women than girls.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: In Palestine, where I've done a lot of work, there's about 80% women to 20% boys, undergraduate. But everywhere I've been in the Middle East, loads more women do physics, more than men. That's a nice asymmetry, because you've got lots of, you know, passionate interest in physics, women that want to do physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so we did, so when I was out there, we did some documentary photography, and we did a photo essay about them to highlight lots of areas of their lives, and, you know, there was people like Tasleen was part of this, and a few other students who have gone on to further study since.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: The idea was to look at the different areas of their life they would have as a Palestinian woman, and hear their voices. So, next to the photo essay, there's a long quote about what they, you know, what they felt it was, you know, they wanted to do, what physics was like, how that fit into their work.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's really interesting. Of course, when it comes to the,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the professor level, or the people actually teaching at universities, of course, WAP is the name of the rest of our men. So it's the idea that in Palestine and other Arab countries, women are really encouraged to go to university, which is great. You know, that's fantastic. They're really encouraged, they want to go to university.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But then it's really difficult for them to carry on the leadership positions.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so that's what we want to work with. Michael does a huge amount of work. You know, maybe they just need part-time positions so they can balance, you know, other commitments they have with being able to teach and do research in the universities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, yeah, so the last kind of area we focus on is countries in conflicts or political turmoil.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So this is really important, because, you know, lots of areas in the world have problems, and we'd like to think the UK suddenly had some huge problems, our colleagues throughout the world would reach out and support us, right? So as a community, we really have to support all of our physics colleagues and students around the world when they go through difficult times.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, you know, there's lots of countries that we've worked with, for example, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Venezuela, Malin, Palestine, South Sudan. We haven't worked with the Central African Republic, but they are in conflict. And they're having a really tough time, and this really, obviously, affects their science and engineering.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, for example, working with Afghanistan, during the 20 years of, you know, occupied by the US,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: There wasn't very… still, at constant war, there wasn't very many new scientists coming up, but in about 2017, when we started the physics department, I'll talk more about Afghanistan.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, this new generation of young people that really want to do visits and build it, and their country came through. Obviously, that's fallen apart in recent years by talking more about Afghanistan.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But the point is, with all conflicts.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: When a conflict finishes, so let's say it goes 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, you've lost that generation of scientists, and again, that's the one first thing we need in all of this, is scientists. So we need to make sure we're still working through those conflict years, so that when the conflict ends, they can jump straight into, let's now build back our universities, our physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so this is Afghanistan. So, we started working in 2018 with them. So this was with Backlash. At Backlash, I mean,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And Mrs. Sajab and Mrs. Jawa, they were all, you know, just from undergraduates. They didn't have master's degrees, they just got jobs facing to professors at the university, and obviously the rest of the professors were very, very senior. There was no kind of middle, because of 20 years of conflict.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, Baptash got in touch with us through this CERN program at Southeast Asia, and, we did some schools. We did the first one myself with, NCA and Fani in 2018, which was Sparticle Physics and Cosmology, which is, you know, what I always kind of work on, of course.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This is the wonderful group of students we worked with, and then we went back and did some more stuff with computing in 2019.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So Backlash is now doing his PhD in Germany with
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a Freiburg on Atlas, which is great.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We are… yeah, so, of course, the issue with Afghanistan is the telegram just back over, it's really…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: went into 2021, and so all of our efforts, kind of collapsed. But what we were doing in the meantime, thank goodness, actually, is we were supporting MScies. There's no MSc program in physics, but there's many really good students that were very capable of doing MSc in physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So next door is around, they have a similar language, so they can easily learn without having to learn German or be very fluid in English. And so we spent a lot of time fundraising to support great students to get scholarships to work in the RAM at various universities, but maybe, mostly i.e. SBS.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And now… and of course, we started that a year or two before this helmet collapse, so as soon as that did, we were like, actually, this is quite good, because now we can, especially for the women scientists, that really needed to exit FMS records. So we supported over 40 students over the years. Funding time ended, unfortunately.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But we now have 40 really good students who have either finished nor finishing their MSc, very eager for opportunities for better study. And many of them have got their… some of them have got better study opportunities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, we also restarted online conferences last year and this year with students.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, this is happening next week, and you're all invited to come and listen to the student talks. So, just to mention two of our organising committees, that's us here.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Well, actually, apart from myself, they're all, I don't know, I speak physics extra volunteers, including Batjas, Baktas and Sajad, but Sharif and Basilin, Sharif's, like, the chair of this
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: committee. We're both one of our MSc students, so he's got positions, one of the first MSc students got a position in Germany now, and he's doing his PhD.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And this is for Silic, who's in Afghanistan, doing a lot of work teaching women, but is very interested to apply, and is applying everywhere for further.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: She finished her master's in a round, but wants to do a PhD. But we've got this happening on Monday, Tuesday, and it's been a really great response, so…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: CERM, Daisy, ICTV, and Perimeter Institution have all got representatives coming to give talks to the students about their institution, but also we're encouraging them to say, you know, have we got any opportunities? Can we help at least one or two of these students, you know, for any kind of opportunity?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so it's kind of these bigger talks in the first morning session, and then the afternoon, it's like an hour and a half, where each student will get the opportunity to do just 10 minutes of their research.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it's really important for these students just to know that we still care about them, you know, they're all having a really tough time, and having these online programs, it's just really important that they feel that people care, and, you know, things being organized for them.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We don't know what's going to happen, we can't work in Afghanistan for a while, but we can still work with community, and it's really nice because also this keeps community. We know basically all Afghan physicists around the world, we all are working together to support each other.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, save.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: might say Venezuela, just go on to,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, refugee scientists, so that's kind of connected to all of this.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, happens in, for example, Syria, also Afghanistan, also Palestine now. If you're a scientist in a country that has, you know, very extreme war happening, you often have to leave, and you become a refugee scientist. So there's some great programs
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I don't know if Ralph's part of any of them, Saqqara is one, another one's called refugee scientists, which basically means if you're a refugee scientist, and you flew your country, and you get somewhere, what are you supposed to do? It's a bit of a shame for you to just sit around not doing anything, right? So the idea is they will not
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: they will match you to a university, so you can't work at the university, Cara pays some, you pay some, they can do teaching, they can continue collaborating, but we looked after. And I say, this happened in the UK, I would hope one of my colleagues would take me in to work with them in their university. So it's really important, there's a really nice videos who was the world…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Family of Science does a lot of work.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: To support refugee scientists.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, I just want to finish, of course, we need to talk about Palestine and Gaza. This is a picture from 2014 in Gaza. They've got 3 great universities. Lots of great students have come out from Gaza over the years. This is what Gaza City used to look like. Of course, everything's been flattened, and the universities are there no more.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, in the next few years, we need to be working with our colleagues there while they… in fact, when I… we used to go every two years. Every time we went, the US fleet bonded again, and then to relate the lads.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, we need to be working with them to help them rebuild their physics departments. At the moment, we're doing online lectures, with, West Bank and Gaza, for the students, even though the West Bank students can't travel at the moment.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so they're kind of doing online learning.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so one of the things I did know more recently is an open data workshop
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And Togo, the University of Lume. So this was nice, because it was part of the African Conference of Physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Again, one thing we can do as physicists to support our colleagues all over the world is go to conferences and strange places. We're all going to this EPS and OCH, you know, places where everybody kind of goes to, that's great, but when they organize these conferences and stuff like Tony go, they really appreciate having scientists come and listen to them, give them talks.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so, myself, so I obviously run a lot of training with Atlas, we brought CMS in, and we did an online workshop for all the participants and students there to be able to use the open data that we've been developing, and so they could go and teach and use it across, within their institutions.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so as I mentioned, we've got a lot of alumni. They do great stuff. They continue working with us.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: over the years, and really drive it. It's just a volunteer program, it's a network at the end of the day. These are the guys that make things happen. At ICP, we basically just fundraise a lot, is what we do, and help set up the program. We give the ICP names with the programmes official, and get support from their universities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So that is all I was going to say for today. This is, like, stuff how to get involved. We have a call for proposals.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And we have our website, social media, you can join our mailing list.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Thanks for listening.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Questions?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Many?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, so, yeah, thank you for the talk, giving the next talk.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I've been a question in the… seems like…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: There's lots of what we would perceive as obvious goals, like, for example, increasing the fraction of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Women that do physics, and that seems obvious, but then… Beautiful.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: culturally, you may face challenges, so there's lots of people, like, I mean, there's lots of stuff that you're doing in God, I don't…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I guess my question is, do you have anybody externally who advises on how you interact with these places, or how you get support? So, you know, how do you get a student's house, or how do you…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: deal with. How do you…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: approach subjects are increasingly want to tackle more of the protection of the… Yeah, so, I mean, because it's like, well, it's coming, it sounds like I'm doing all this. It's not me, it's the people in the country, so they know how to do stuff.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And so we don't have anyone external, it's just my pasture scientists working all the place. So they say everything, and that's why almost all of our volunteers, again, I gave
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You know, lots of examples where we have a mix, but it's always driven by the people that know what they're doing on the mix.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And, like, companies like Gaza, that's really complicated, but we work with, like, UNESCO. They help us with that specific complicated program. ICP is UNESCO, so when it gets really complicated, it's so helpful, because if this was just a charity.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: would be a bit alone, but being part of ICP and UNESCO gives us these resources, and then that gives them resources, so we can go, yeah, sure, we can get this person to help you.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So it's just building, again, just connecting people up that can support each other.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, Vic, I didn't appreciate it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: for patients.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Have you done in… has Russia-Ukraine activity?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Oh, that's a good question. So, we don't… we haven't really worked with Russia because they… they're not part of our… our focus.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Ukraine would come under our conduct regions.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, in principle, we should… we would be working with them to support their physics department, but we haven't. I guess that's… as I say, we work with lots of spaces, we just need someone to apply. That's a good point, Linda, we should reach out.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Thanks.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I'm just wondering whether…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: is the kind of long-term goal, that we can have, let's say, a new Atlas member at some of the, you know, a new Atlas Institute at the site, or doing research more than, just… Sorry, I shouldn't send you out, but more than teaching.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But this is what those scientists want, right? Yeah. Yeah, the idea is that we try and help them build their support to get policymakers, BC, to give them more money, for research. When it comes to things like Amazon CMS, it's really hard, because they need a lot of money.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So you have to give them something like, I don't know what it is, £10,000 a year, something. But we have been successful, so, like, Lebanon joined CMS. We've also got ICAs, international cooperation agreements, between a lot of these countries, including Lebanon.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Palestine, where else, Guatemala, lots of these would sound. So, helping is just, you know, we don't do it when we say help, we just say, this is an opportunity, we can… we know the people that you need to talk to, and they make these new
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You know, even though the powers are great, they've got a load of computer school concerned. So that's the goal, is to empower the scientists, but obviously funding is always the thing that we can't magic out of nowhere, but getting the momentum, getting the connections, getting things like international cooperation agreements and MOUs, that's all just really helpful along that road.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean, is there international funding, for example, available for that sort of thing? It's basically not.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It seems like the sort of thing the UN or something like that could be… Yeah, it's really vital. They say they want to all discuss the same with the scientists, but then where is the actual…
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, funding to support that, and they say, well, countries need to do that, but governments often don't know or care about physics.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, yeah, it's a long process.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But yeah, so the… well, the TWAS, which is the Academy of Science, they have some funding, but it comes from countries. So it might be, like, we have funding for Pakistan and Chinese, so it always comes from countries that have got money, investing it to… so it's really hard. If you're from Tokyo, you just don't have… they're just no way to get any funding.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Other questions?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Any… anyone on Zoom? Yeah.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Knowledge test.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We can't present.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Any last links question before we… Also, send that?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If it's not, then let's time tape again.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: 5 seconds for lunch, please feel free to join us.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: See, when I used to travel for phrasing a lot, now I do have more reports later.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Do you ever have any issues.