STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: About what technology department does, because, clearly, like every other department, we nobody knows what we do. You know, it's a good one about Ppd about anything. But anyway, this is about technology. One thing we're really good at is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: departmental calendars every year. We've got people on it. And, as you can see, technologies is partly here, and, as you can see, the Prime Minister and the Chancellor came to see us. Because the Labor Party Conference was in Liverpool. But you know, they came to see which is good.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, so we are technology.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We are
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: some number, I mean 383. When this slide was made. But it's on 342 ish permanent staff, and this floating band of years in a year in industries and apprentices and and whatever's
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we are mostly engineers.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And that ranges from Phd engineers to.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You know, we have a bunch of scientists, and we have specialist support staff. We do support both that we're in 4 4 divisions applied science, which is help useful people. But basically it does a lot of mechanical engineering. It does things like composites. It.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Workshops here at row has a mechanical design. It has come across also has an energy support unit, etc. And electronics, which does exactly what it says. Micro electronics support which you may or may not have come across, who teach basically all of Europe how to do microelectronic design been doing that for 30 years. And technology at Glasbury
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: that do mostly mechanic. Well, they do mostly accelerated focus engineering. So we've got a big mechanical design group. We also have controls and electricals. And we have workshops. And we have detect group, and we have nuclear physicists. So that's where we are.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And we have one person per whole week
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: who actually belongs to Ralph. That's thank you.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This is what we do, which is basically all engineering except civil.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: although I'm minded to take that up because I get fed up in the States, and we don't do. We don't do big data. I mean, we we do firmware and detectors. But we don't do data science particularly. So we do all of this. We're starting doing more from quantum in firmware and sort of mechanical engineering. But we also
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: do a lot of project and program management.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Most of the big projects, as you all know, because your-, your projects are big international collaborations, and we do quite a lot of project management.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: 3 of our divisions were under us in 9,001.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So we we essentially are professional engineers, but professional engineers with a really strong
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: background and experience in doing science projects.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And who do we work for
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: this is this is in 2023 data that we've updated. So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: this big blue chunk here is stuff that we do for programs and for accelerators. So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: your Ppd work is in there somewhere, but for us it's Dial 3. I have 30 something staff, that book directly to asset projects here. There's a mix and and also staff, who book directly to programs. So, for instance, we're doing a whole lot of work on that doesn't come through, you guys. But it's not physics. We do work on Ligo
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But we also work on the projects, you know not, you know, Atlas.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but all of those you know, those projects. We we also do work on. And you can see which you know who we actually talk to. So there's this big bunch of stuff which is Scfc science.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We do a lot of stuff for Isis. I have a group of electrical engineers who do all the detectors for Isis mechanical stuff for that. As I said, this is 2023. So Ess, coming to an end rail space, we do some Cnf
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: less, but still some innovation. So we've run Cfi, which is the center for
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: instrumentation, which is basically set up
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: at that point specifically to do development and implementation for facilities because there was no particular
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: budget that they could do that, for that's broadened a bit. But it's for more generic development of instrumentation. So it's not for projects. But it's, you know, we're doing, for instance, on that we're doing to work with 28 nanometers. So it's not specific to any project now, but will be the stuff that's needed for the future. We also run something called technology hub.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So where I see it by is the low Trl level technology hub is much higher trl level. What we've got 2 main projects on that at the moment one is working with Diamond Esr and Heidelberg on the next generation of detectors, for when we've upgraded diamond, because if they don't have a new generation of detectors they will have to put analyum up in front of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the current one so hold up very pointless. But detectives always an up on this sweep of things. And the second project is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: C 300. So selection might possibly it's something you want to do with the Rfi.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: The next project on the line will probably be something to do with the Drp work of particle physics. Okay, so that's where we will work.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I should have pointed out that we.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We do anything for nothing. We we only work when we've got Project code. So all my soft booked project. You know, we don't have core funding for for doing anything other than the innovation stuff. And that sort of, you know, people building proposals.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, here's some examples of what we did, and some of these you will know about so large projects like that. I mean, this is, this is all done and dusted. But, for instance, if a passing Prime Minister suddenly says to Scfc that you will join Ess and do an income contribution, we're the people that end up doing very large chunks of it. So, for instance, on Ess, we built the Rf distribution center, beam transport modules.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a huge amount, a football pitch amount of Goron Carlos shielding for the instruments, chopper discs.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: electronics, common interface for the data. And this was an asset project, but mostly our staff worked on it with the hybrid cavities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So that's sort of stuff we do big stuff that gets delivered to other institutions. I might have missed it, but the funding. So is that all paid for out of Ess. The comment about the passing Prime Minister was a deliberate one. So what happened was that David Cameron
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: did a deal with the Swedes, we would contribute. The Uk. Would contribute
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: some large amount of money. It was 70 million or something in kind. Contributions. Okay? And most of that went through Sdc. There was a small amount in Huddersfield, and rather large and
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: still not finished large amount, but went to Ukea for doing the hot sales.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: The problem is, but when that money isn't enough, it's Sdfc that ends up.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I'm blessed.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: certainly. If a passing previous executive chair persuades the Government really, what we need to do is it'll be an opportunity.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Well, I mean to be fair. We would do the zoom part of June, anyway. So yeah, the part of June
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: was some through the universities, and included the the Apas, the Dac, and obviously the science however, then Mark Thompson got more money to do Pip 2 and the target
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and of course, it's technology. And as Tech, who end up delivering the the big hardware. So that's 2 up there. Target is Chris engines group down here. The Apas is an Apa factory up in Darsbury, and we have to build some number up to 137 of those. And we're also doing a bit of work with the university project.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And clearly the science is also not ours. However.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know we hedge our bets, and we're also doing because we are in Wayne. We did teaching time. I think that's the spokesperson, for
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: oh, yes, if it can be a candy, not
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: okay. Other projects that you know. Love that
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: projects that keeper keep on giving atlas. So we're involved with the the trigger and the tracker side of that. So that's
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: One of the- the stage getting answered on the stage, you know, because they're all in 1 5. And clearly, it's a project that we do with PP,
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the traffic speed very successful.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But we also do a whole lot of other things. So, Ligo, this was work that we did started originally with the University of Glasgow. Who are the lead on this. But we've done some upgrade work on it, and hopefully, we will be involved in further statements of gravitational waves in astronomy. We're working on Ska
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: For the software and the firmware for the low frequency array. Nuclear physics. I mean, this is just such a nice piece of mechanical. This is an evidence of frame on which the detectors will sit, you know, is this instrument that moves from one facility to another, and they're hoping eventually to get 4, 5 coverage
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and we do stuff on nucleophysic structure. The nucleophysic is the one
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: system. Yeah, the one thing about work which is actually paid for by Consolidated Grant.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So that's a Consolidated grant that we're part of with Liverpool, and I think somebody in Derby. But so it is from from our point of view, quite an unusual way of funding some.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Oh, that that was just a it's December in our calendar, because I think it looked like a Christmas tree. That's 1 of the low frequency.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I'm gonna
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: okay. We will provide you with cryogenics at any altitude so ranging from Lz, which is really quite counters, which we're doing now, which will go on the ring. Alpha G, which is a bit of particle physics that we do that that's actually nothing to do with Stfc, it's it's it's antimatter. So it's cool.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: actually, we did something in in up a mountain in in Sardinia as well. But, Alma, we did all the cryogenics for Alma. So 70 half meter, half tonne cryostats that are being. It's a radio frequency. Well, something needs a telescope. And obviously, if you go to L. 2, you'll find plank.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Well, it's not running anymore. But we did the 4 K cool system for that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: that's good fun. We work for all the the Sdfc facilities. So again, in all sorts of engineering ways
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: for a clf, we worked on vacuum. We did a whole lot of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: mechanical engineering for them, some really quite neat stuff on
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: looking at the thermal effect on the gain medium from the beam, and how that distorts a gain medium, and therefore how that affects the optics. So it's a nice sort of combination of different modeling packages. And this is.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I have no idea why this is. Cf, this is in Baldy. It's something that Cfi did, apparently.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Mung beans
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: give out photons in darkness for reasons I don't know. I think it's a crime for health. But anyway, you can detect
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: as state mentioned, we do. If you look at car and asset, all mechanical design is ours. All that is is technology, all the electrical. All the controls.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We work very closely with them on all sorts of things.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: At Brahl. We're also doing a bit of superconducting magnets for potentially for helium ideas for a potential future fail.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But you know this is rather nice. This is an Aztec design. It's a controllable, permanent magnet that you could use in a bee line rather than having electromagne magnets. So if you're looking for more sustainable accelerators, that would be the way to go in parts of the beam where you don't need to change the fuel quickly.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You can change the field, but not not as quickly as with an electrical electric engine.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: For Isis. We do everything for the
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: really quite sublime. I mean, this is, this is lovely. This is code silicon. So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: basically pull silicon down on onto a code surface
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and only half of them break. So we've worked hard to make these experiences do. Well, we're doing a whole lot of stuff both here and
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: on the instruments that they're upgrading under Isis endeavor. We will wind magnets for them. At one stage we made concrete magnets for them, which is a part radiation, the magnets holocaus encased in concrete
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and we do as I say, a lot of detective support.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: All things to do for Isis, you know. So do all the data acquisition. This is quite a nice piece of work, because it's using AI, or at least machine learning to discriminate between neutrons and gamma rays.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's planning recognition. So it's very good. We do a whole load of stuff on on the target. This is the same group that is doing the target for Hypercane and for Lbm also works on target upgrades.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and, as I say, we do, a little bit of suffering about growing stuff quantum
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: for a long time. But you know this is mostly in the marketing division in electronics. But we are doing more now. We do
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a bit of a technical stuff for them as well.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: What else? We got?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Raw space, you know all those lovely pictures you get of of coronal discharges from the sun.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Guess who made the 86? It was us with technology. That was a long, long time ago. But the wonderful thing about space is that in the whole technology business problem. It's so expensive to prove a new piece of technology that space is always flying all stuff.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But it works. That's what solves it. We're currently doing the cooler, cooler for aerial aerial is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: big project that is run by Paul Eccles in in our space. It's looking at the atmosphere of exoplanets. So that's 1 of those things. If you find water in the atmosphere of an exoplanet, you.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: as long as so we're doing a neon. Jt. Cooler for that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and we've done various mechanical engineering for ground support for the for the tanks.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and we do stuff for other facilities. So this, this is a bit old now it's been running for years. I think this is the detector on
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the EU itself said generally, it's about
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: very much very pleased with it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So that was that was also delivered by Marcus as well the
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: one of the things that we are very much encouraged to do. And we like doing, anyway, is using the tech. The technology that we develop it originally actually comes from particle physics projects, you do particle physics detectors, and you need it to be radar. And then you've got this one for technology. You look around, see what else needs radar technology, and one of the key. Things that we did was work
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: with Richard Henderson.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Cambridge got a Nobel Prize for this on detectors for crime, electron microscopy, and they improved
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the imagery imaging of proteins knowing C 100 chips. And most of this is 300 kv, it's really expensive to to get electronic sort of means. Only the big institutes can have them. We've done the chip with C 100, which is a hundred Kv, which means 10 million. It costs 1 million, so more people will be able to do it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So, as I said that one Nobel Prize and she actually mentioned us in speech.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So we also provide engineering services on both sides. And this is at Ralph. We've got a mechanical workshop. So it's it's mostly Cnc, we're very proud of this.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So we have some. Last last year, some we had. Some think we swept
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: quantity. I mean, there's sometimes you need concessions, but on the whole it does very well. We have metrology. We measure a lot of stuff we do. Additive manufacturing. These are the sort of in everybody does 3D printing now. But if you really need
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: consistent quality of materials, and we've got these big machines that will just turn the stuff out. And it's always the same. We also run outside of manufacture. So here
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but last year the spend was getting up. I can't remember where I gave this tour, but it was around about 2 million. So this is where
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: drop that into the industry, getting back to stock science here to do it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So that. And we do that on both sides.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: As I said, dance. Really, we have electrical engineering.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: electrical engineer. They do all of this, but they don't. They don't just do it at Darspberry. So, for example, we've got a get onto it later. But we've got a green moment project here, and we've got some man
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: very complex control things with the electrical Internet will come and do that as well.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So they will do all of that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This, you know, love because it's the Internet building. So you know exactly what we do here because you do it, too.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, currently the big ones.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: He's at risk. But we've also, I think we've now finished what we're doing on dark side. We're doing the Cfi as well.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We've got the control group up at Darspberry, who do controls for accelerated but also personal system stuff. They also work with Epac down here. They work with space here. So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: reason we have them is we need those skills. But also, it's important to have a a critical mass of these people, you know. There's no use, really. If a department has one electrical engineer, I mean, it might be, they might be great. But it you can't have, you know, in a time when you can only employ early careers, people you can't deploy one
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: early career. Electrical engineering expect them to thrive. You need to put them in a in a group where you know they can learn and and develop. So it's good to have that core skill.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, we'll stop on controls that we do, which is all good stuff.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Also here at round, we have competence materials, testing. That does exactly what it says it does.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's we used to call it the Chemistry group. But then, you know, we realize most people think of chemistry. Now as a lot of clean activity, that you can do. What we do is make epoxies, and we develop the boxes and we develop glues. And they're great. We make a lot of boron carbine, and the one thing it isn't is clean, but it's still chemistry. So we do a lot of that
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but we also have some thermal testing, which we will do stress testing and stuff. So a whole lot of stuff on materials that you, it's very difficult to find data for that, you know, especially, you know, low temperature data structural data on materials. You know, the core ones are there. But when it comes to strange blues or something that's quite difficult.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We do this for site. Hazardous waste management. Please do not leave your nasty chemicals outside our 17 without talking to Steve Robertson, first, st because it gets very cross with jars of unlabeled stuff, but we have to dispose of it, and it has to be legally disposed of, and he has been known to follow the Grundel band to find out where it takes out of countless waste, because we have a legal obligation to do so. Okay, I mentioned before that we do innovation. So this is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: one of the things that's always been important to us actually, but is in the current climate becoming increasingly important that we get
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the maximum impact for any technology we sell.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And it's also important that we can say these things that we developed doing particle physics are now useful over here because it's another. And there's lots of reasons for doing particle physics. But one is, it leads to technology innovation.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So I mentioned before, the center of instrumentation exists, and, as I said originally, it was for instrumentation. Incentives widened, and you can see, these were the bids for this year, and they come across the patch this year. Unfortunately, we had less money because of the current financial crisis, and we couldn't fund as much as we wanted to, but we found a mixture of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: manage programs which are sort of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: 200 pounds a piece a year for 3 or 4 years to develop something. The 28 nanometer stuff is certainly one of those, a mixture of those responsive, both ones, which are much more sort of in the air
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: that we want the detector hub. I mentioned the dynamics which is now called
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: designing, because it's now part. It's partnered with the hydrop and and the others is, is looking at the next generation of of detective problems on cryo. And we're now working on C 300
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: government priorities. These are things that we do that are funded externally. So I should have said that we we do get quite a lot of our income, a chunk of our income from externally funded projects. Mostly that external funding is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: other research councils, maybe other institutions. Some of it is pure commercial.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but not very much, but a couple of years ago the bid did
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a review of of market divisions, of, etc. And electronics to look at the impact for the economic impact. So this is not science security economic. And they've got these these figures. So mostly.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we basically have apparently generated 73 job years. But what we're in.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But that's to date and and hope for another 59. So this is mostly from
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: detectors we've developed, which are now used in cameras.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So in some cases we license the design. In some cases we're part of the supply chain, so we will get the chips made and supply them. We have had
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a couple of spin out. So one was called Vivas, and that was for Cmos sensors, and that was fun out some time ago, and then sold on another is quantum detectives, which has nothing to do with quantum per se. It was it was a good name when they 1st thought of it. Which actually has labs on site here. And they're currently doing a management plan. But
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it is this is the sort of thing. Government likes to see that all the investment they're putting into science is actually broken jobs.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: As I mentioned before, one of the you know division. That's the National Micro Support Center.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: As you all know, micro design. The design tools are hugely expensive, and commercial seats on design tools are sort of 6 figures upwards, maybe 7 figures depending what you want
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: that makes it almost impossible to even dose it to teach my design.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So 30 years ago, this problem, and 30 years ago they came up with the scheme.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: There's a EU scheme where we're one of the. There were 3 partners, and now 5
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: to make micro electrons design accessible to universities to teach the next generation of of designers.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's still going on. I can't remember. I mean, it must be
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: 10 on 10, right in the next one.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you probably won't find a macbook as a professional designer in Europe. Now.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: who has not been touched by
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: your practice, possibly in France, because they do things differently. But yeah. So that's what they do. It's really very successful. So what we
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: developing have developed is a really good, a very strong relationship with the tool providers, the vendors, people like synopsys, cadence, so that we are trusted because the one thing that you cannot do is use your very cheap academic license to do anything commercial. And if you do, then because our whole relationship depends on us not to do that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And as you can see, we have something, something Institutes. And these are people. These are actual institutes that we
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: across Europe. We have taken out. We did have more, but we have a united because the first, st you know a lot of these, the 1st thing that happened when Russia invaded was, they cut them off because these tall vents are quite often American. So you cut
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But that's where I mean most of this.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It was all done on courses. Here, then, Covid came along. So now we do online courses as well, and occasionally we will go to other institutes to give a course if they have a key, need to
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: to do one and the
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Iberian. So the the Spanish and the Portuguese are very keen, much at the moment.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Okay, exploiting what we do in medicine. So we've developed a whole load of detective technology. Clearly, you know, it's not just to detect different particles or photons, or whatever for science, it's can be used in in medicine. So we worked with electrorescence, energy.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: AI brain scan development. All this is done in with grants
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: usually in zoom is, I think, in partnership with university groups.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So they're looking to. If they can do some sort of thing, some medical purposes. So we'll be part of that collaboration.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And do the search.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: This is also something we've been doing for more than 30 years.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You're talking to coincidence, you know we are a national lab and a lot of things that we do in the national labs
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we've been doing for a long time because we have the Space People will come to us. So we were involved
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: many years ago, back in 19 eighties, in the early years of wind energy, we had a Wind test site, and that test site is now a green ammonia test site. So we had funding over the last couple of years from Desnes. And if you walk over the mound you'll see the ammonia test site. It's about to be commissioned. That was a 4 million pound project.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's very hard, I mean effectively. This is chemical engineering, but it's to enable
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the only a lot of chemical synthesis is very energy intensive, and the processes are all designed to work continuously. So this is a real problem. If you want to run off intimate and renewable supplies. So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: what's novel in here is thermal time control to actually be able to run it off. We did want to set it up as it sort of sounded like this network, because we want to get some solar power. We have a very small room
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: without, because you've got to, you know. Set up your own 50 Hertz, and if you want feedback, then that's that's really expensive. So in the in the end, we're we're going to use
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the output from solar panels on site, the data output, not the actual electrons to actually feed the the farm that's going.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We've also done a whole lot of other stuff.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: A lot of this is ammonia based. If you wonder why we're doing ammonia and not hydrogen. It's because ammonia is the most efficient way of carrying hydrogen and hydrogen.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But the problem with hydrogen companies that there's the energy density is.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and you either have it at very high pressure or you liquefied, but which are problematic either in energy costs or certainly safety costs. However, if you make ammonia, there's nh, 3. There's a lot of hydrogen pneumonia. You can either burn it. It will burn it
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: with a very slight amount of cracking. If you could crack a bit of it inside, you can say 10%. You can burn ammonia in a Diesel engine. Crack it, you either burn it directly, or you crack it back into hydrogen. But the good thing about ammonia is that there's a very well established ammonia industry, because it's usually fertilizer.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So it's it's easier
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: to step up from that and to some useful part of a renewable energy market. Then it needs to start from scratch. But we also done some work on on heat pumps and clean with the wind stuff and
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a paper that Jim Halliday wrote in 1980 something saying that by now you can. You know the country can get 40% of its energy from wind. And lo and behold, if you look on a windy day, we're getting more than 40% of our grid is coming from wind
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and we're doing some soft in material. So imaging stuff we're working with on the slide.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we're working with Oxford to do some work on civic recycling aluminium. The usefulness of the recycling project and crystal structure. And you can look at that actually, in real time on Isis, and use AI to modify the front rest of the city to get the best structure. So we do some stuff. Actually, that's all. There's
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: basically, this is detector stuff we are building detectors. Other people are using to look at benefits.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I have a whole list of capabilities which I will not read up. But in summary. Nobel prizes are us basically. So the technically private. But we were mentioned in the Nobel Prize.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You guys, but with with us as well again, it's not just us. It's becoming Glasgow
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and T. 2 K. There was a breakthrough prize, and the feature of Chris mentioned in a purple shirt and a yellow tie. Getting getting some award, I mean. He didn't get the prize, but T. 2 K. Did, and and we got recognition.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And then there's been one breakthroprison, hasn't there? Which
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it's on my side. So we do.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Engineering support from big science is actually saying, micro electronics, design training for most of Europe.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We have critical mass of expertise in a lot of key disciplines.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Which is really useful for
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: all of our all of our endeavors. Actually both, you know, in the pure science stuff and in the Philippines
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we deliver projects. I mean. On whole, we're not an operational department. We work on projects. I mean, there
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: bits around the images, I mean detective stuff for for licenses.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But, generally speaking, we work on projects, then hand them over.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And we're active in government
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: priority areas. So it seems up on net 0 with sustainability. Another thing that's big now is semiconductors.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and, in fact, what will be? It's got some funding from decent to actually expand what we do into Smes.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and probably, most most importantly, it's got. The vendor can't be included.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I think that was it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Thank you, Anna.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Question section no, that's very impressive. Actually, all these projects. So what? What is the budget for the year?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: That's very hard to say, because the department as a whole gets only of the order of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: this year. It's 8 million, but
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: 4 million of that goes straight up again. So 4 million that is Cfi, and then the Hub and the rest of it goes on training. And we have quite a big training budget because we have a a huge number of early careers people.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, we take in a lot of graduates a lot of apprentices, and although the graduate.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the sort of central graduate training, as it were, is funded their time doing, it isn't, and also all the other training that we have to give them. The technical training isn't funded. So we have a huge training budget.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I have these surveys somewhere, actually, about how much you know. We have management time, which is basically me one and a half pas
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: half of Chris Low, the lovely Chris. None of us will live without I've got Kathy as well, who works with Chris. A couple of project managers and people will be here. One, I mean. It's really very little. We run very lean. I have a tiny budget for what we call technology initiatives, as if somebody had a very good idea.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Usually I should probably be very so. It's
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it's hard, because virtually all my staff are booking all their time to put in. We have a
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we had a departmental review, which you know filled the old phrase fills you with horror. However, and it filled me with horror as well. It was a huge amount of work that it didn't make us pull that data together. And we were running. It's it's less than 20% is on operation, as it were, as opposed to actually delivering. And all the reviews was very low. I have to say
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: hopefully, including of Yeah, that's where we are.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, thank you for this wonderful talk. I have a procedural question, because, since you're involved in so many other projects, if somebody in particle physics department wants to.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, have be involved in an experiment and want to
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: explore part of technology engineering side, which needs to be done for that. What's the procedure in the sense? Do we have to come up with our own money? Do we have some budget to get in involved? How? What are the criteria based on which you decide.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yes, I mean the thing I'm trying to think so many of the projects we do with you are really long. And they've been going on for so long that actually how they ever started is lost in the midst of time.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But actually, I suppose Pablo will be the best person to answer answer this.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: when you get wanted people to work on. Maybe I can comment. I guess that we do have a couple of recent examples, right? We have liquid, for example, which was something that's smaller and getting off the ground right? This new technology. So it's true that in all of these cases there's some funding that's arrived at from somewhere. In that particular case. It was a small, a small grant.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But I think that the question you pose is one that's quite a. It's 1 that I'm thinking about, which is that I think it is true that it always needs to be funded by a project of some sort.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but I think there's enough demand from within the Department which says, actually, we'd like to have a standing, you know, arrangement of something that we can dip into. I think this came up in one of our meetings right? That we would that we would be funding in in some kind of perpetuity. But in general you need to to find funding, and then we negotiate with Anna, and we have these quarterly meetings, which I think you know place where we can exchange of what we expect our upcoming needs to be.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: We're in an uncertain world, we know that. But we can talk about you know what? What are the plans have working at the moment? What are the plans for for the future? And that's the kind of place that that could arise, at least to establish that the technical expertise is there to to do it, but also to think about the funding. But basically talk to my manager talk to the Division head, and then it, you know, if there's something that is unfunded, that's something that would be, you know, the division heads level that we would, we would discuss that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean, what we really need is because I do not have people. I can't keep headroom, because the moment we've got some headroom. Somebody comes and swallows it. We haven't got any more
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know. So if somebody comes along with with a certain
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: quite often it would start with
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a little bit of a mechanical engineer to skip, sketch and stuff up. Then we can probably find a few weeks with somebody, and it's cheap, and you know we can do that to slot something in longer term.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Then, you know, we're all in the same recruitment crisis. We can't recruit the only people we've got is early career people, and they're usually filling up the swaps of the retired people at the other end. So it's really quite hard, but what we do need is plenty of notice. I mean, the good thing about projects is that they need to always start really slow and then build up until you get to something like
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: which wants to start with a bang of 5 staff years, and that we just can't do because you never have 5 people standing idle, waiting for something like that to start it. Just it can't happen. So then we just have to try and be as flexible as we can. You know.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we're quite used to juggling priorities and and you on on projects across the patch. You know people don't like it, but
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it's undoubtedly true that you know. Maybe at some point in its long life Atlas could do without half a staffing at one year, and it could be used on something else. You know the Atlas people won't like it. But in the overall priorities, if you have a discussion with part of businesses, then you might agree that this is actually a good way, a good use of somebody's time.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And but then again, then along comes a massive priority for us. You have to have something ready before you know the shutdown is happening, or whatever. Then, you know it's fair enough. Then you you have to take something off, something else to to feed that
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It isn't easy, but we do have as long as we keep our key.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Experienced engineers who actually could look at something and and realize what is needed.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Then then it works.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean, my biggest fear is that we lose really expensive the experience people
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: who've been there before, you know, they know. Yeah, you say, you want this. But actually, you can do for for now. And and that's always true. I mean, you know, I developed technology. I always want to be the best.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and but sometimes it it just has to be good enough for the time being, and it's really difficult for people to let go of things. But actually, at some point that you have to say, that'll do. And that's 1 of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: one of our skills, actually, I think, is knowing
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: well. The experience that you can translate is not. I'm looking at you guys with your physics and everything
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: what scientists
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: say they really need and find out what the actual critical specifications are, because otherwise nothing will ever get done.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You know, you have to actually be able to focus on on the things that are vitally important and and saying right. But if you really want this to be to one micron instead of 5, it's going to cost you an extra 1 million quid, and then you can make decision. That actually.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know. Well, you know, if you want your detective, be that big you know that will be. You'll never get money, but if you can make it this big and run it for twice as long
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: might have to do that, you know, it's
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: we just have to make something.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Thank you, because I think it was a really great tour of everything you do, and not all of us know everything that you do. So. That was excellent, and I guess to give my perspective, which is, you know, I've been here for a year now, and I came into it, not fully understanding your model, but a bit from the outside. Now that I understand it in detail, I think it works extremely well, and of course there are aspects of that that we discuss. It's a constant feedback
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: process, but I think it works extremely well right. This kind of partnership, and the fact that you have a whole body of other work so that it can be dipped into and out, and so on. I think it's a model that works really. Well. I wanted to ask you about one. There's loads of things that we could talk about in the talk. There was one aspect in particular, which is, if we look at the Cfi center for instrumentation, it's 1 of
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: really very few places at the moment where there is pure R&D funding, and something where you really can genuinely do something either new or build on on an idea that's at quite early stage. That's a really powerful tool, right? It turns out because there's not a lot of that type of funding. So I guess
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: one question about that is whether you think it sits in the right place, it certainly allowed a lot of things to happen. The truth is that in the wider community there's a lack of R&D as well in universities, and so on as well. And I think that in Cfi you have a mix. Sometimes it has universities involved, sometimes not mainly. It's lab. It's always lab. What's your view on that? Are we asking too much of that mechanism? If we have that conversation?
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If that's something you think we could build on
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: for many years and see if I existed. There was some system within. And and I agree and- and- and we basically, that was a very clear thing.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Also the Cfi focus on facilities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Now the audio is gone.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Cfi is broadened, but it's still mostly facilities.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And the facilities do need it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: And I really wouldn't want to open up to universities because we just wouldn't be able to cope. However, I agree that there could be an additional fund. Maybe you make it sort of the same fund that looks at
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a more researchy based way of applying for funding. Because Cfi is, it's technology development. It is not
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a science experiment. So I didn't mean direct approach from university. By the way, I meant just to to broaden the base. So it's always national lab driven, but with possible external partners. I think it would be very difficult to fund university through it. I mean, you would have to have completely different mechanisms at the moment. It's very resource, and it's all in the lab. So there are no overheads from a finance point of view.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it's very clean. It's easy. Now, there's so where we haven't actually funded universities through, except
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: actually, I think it's only really the Atc has relationships with some universities who play part in some of their Cfi projects
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: unless we've actually bought something directly from them. We haven't actually funded them. I don't think we've ever funded university staff
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: were not Microsoft, because I don't think we could, I think it would be quite difficult, and certainly don't have.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I suppose what I mean is to have the inflow of ideas as well. Not necessarily. At the moment we look at ways to do things on, to have that full set of ideas being able to flow in as well as out.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Now, certainly, if if on the technology hub, which is a different funding line, if the next project. Who knows? But if the next project is going to be a Drd thing, I mean, that is clearly not something we do
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: stand alone
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: within technology or not even within the labs. Probably. I mean, we are part of various bits of Drd. With along the University, so I'd imagine that would be
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: much broader base. Again, though I don't.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It would have to be an easy decision about whether any of that money went to universities directly. But I agree you could easily see it could be a collaborative collaborations if they can find funding that well in the shorter term, it makes sense to look at that as a as a European infrastructure, grant or something.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Yeah, I mean, that would have gotten it to be a central fund, sure in in the Uk funding. But I think that's the.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But I don't only need the one ongoing at the moment. Right? There'll be a small small pickings for
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: yeah, something more structural, I think, should arise from our strategy regression. I think that I do agree with it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's it's very difficult now with Cfi, because there's so much focus on it, because, as you said, everything else is, and see if I shrank by by a 3rd year, and I have absolutely no indication at all.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But I mean, that's 1 of the answers to your question is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: a little. And sometimes it's just about little things to get a proof of principle going.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Now, as I say, we we funded something on the job, and we funded something for what it was, but
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it was definitely responsive mode. It was, you know, the 3 10 K.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So it has happened.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Any other questions, any questions from Zoom.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I don't see any.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If there are no no question, maybe I can ask the last one. Sorry, cool.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean, one thing is
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: in all the experiments which and and different projects which you are involved in. For example, I saw sk, I saw blank data and so on.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: There are no, I mean
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: at the end, when the you know, physics results are being produced and published.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If there are no involvements directly from the technology department, what do you feel about it in the sense, for example, sk papers
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I do see acknowledgment to the Sdfc. For the, you know, famous blank data paper. I do see acknowledgment for the Sdfc. But not the direct author list. It comes and goes. I mean, Joe Odell has his name on the like the 1st Ligo paper with gravitational wave. So he's got an H. Index. Marcus is on Cms papers, the original ones. So occasionally, you know, we do get our names on the papers.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I don't. Yeah as long as I can, and I will continue to sound here and say, Look, we did that.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's it's probably okay, because most of my guys are not dependent on publication record for career progression.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know. So you know it. We're technologists from Martin Crook. Who's you know? Who's if anybody should have been on the planet paper who's doing everything now.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: He got to. I am through the work, you know. The fact is, he's an internationally renowned expert in his technology, and people need to pass it to our door, to his door to do this.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: so it's it can be galling.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: But it's not the most important thing.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If your career is more on the sort of technology engineering line. Now, that's not to say that we don't all want recognition, because, of course, we do. We like the impact. We like getting prizes. And we like. And yeah, we're not really counted for any of that. And
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: it it can be. It can be annoying. But quite often. What we did
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: was so long ago in the string of you know what I didn't show there in my, because it wasn't cryogenics. It was my altitude slide is. We built a little bit of a thing, a probe landed on a comet
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: by the time it actually got to the Comet and landed on it. I think it was probably 20 years after we built the thing, you know, half of people had left, and then the other half forgotten.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's really nice personally, to know that you built a thing that's now on the comment, I suppose. But
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you can't. You know your your author? This is a long enough.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean, it's nice to have it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, for people to have that recognition, but it isn't
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: the absolutely most important thing in their their careers. They know they did it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I mean. So, for example, the plank did a Cmd paper 2018. That's a crazy number of citations, etc, etc. The author list is not so big in acknowledgement. They have a big acknowledgement where Stfc. Is there, and so
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: I remember going to a lot of when we were doing plank, and and most of the time we were doing plank. It wasn't me I was doing aerial, but I remember at the beginning going to various arguments. It was tea party funded then where there wasn't enough money for the cooler, and we did the 4 K cooler plank to those very complex
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: instrument because it had thermometers running it.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: some point one Kelvin. But for a while it was the coldest place, as far as we knew, in the universe, except for on earth, because it produced it produced 100 nanowatts of cooling at 100 micro kelvin
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but to get to that there was this complex cooling chain. So it's it's it's up at L 2. So it's a long way away from Earth. It has a relatively cool shields cooled down to about 50 Kelvin.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: On the back of those there was a hydrogen. John Thompson, that was built by the Americans had these huge thermal compressors on it
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: because they changed the thermal environment on the whole space start that got down to just below 20 K. What we built was the 4 K. System. So a 4 k Jt. Which went from 20 k. To 4 k. The French built an open circuit Dilution Fridge.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: which got down to point 1.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If you ever I mean, if you know, it's bad enough doing particle physics, experiments that you sort of you could at least do some testing on those. Of course, when you launch a satellite it's a ball.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It takes months to get to well, too, and all the time it's doing that it's cooling down. So 1st the shields are cooling, then they start up the high, and that starts cooling. Only then you start your heating. Jt, not until that gets really cold. Do you know that actually, it's going to work and not block because there is a few microns hollow? You all know how the pumps go to your expanding. That's got a very small orifice. That small orifice is micron.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So we've got
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: our heating with our compressors. We've got a hot react getter to to clean up the gas. However, you cannot absolutely be sure that nothing will block up.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You know your hole that's at the end of meters of pipe work that you're expanding through. So you know you can't hold your breath at one. So you know you're keeping your fingers crossed at all times. That it gets there, and then, of course, the dilution project has to start up.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: and then it all works, and then everybody heaps watching.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: The 1st time I built something that was launched on satellite, which was an Earth donation
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: agents are, you know, measured seaside temperatures.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: but they've been going now since 1990 or not. How long they've done Demos for them. You learn something and
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: try not to be mean, but a little bit of you hope something else blow up before your thing can be shown to work or not, because it is absolutely terrifying that the thing that you built
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: work.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, and there's and there's nothing that can be done. I mean Martin, who's now doing the aerial cooler that is, at the center of a half 1 billion experiment.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If that fails, everybody is, you know, it's a huge international thing. They've just throwing the money away.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's terrifying.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: So
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you know, I could have drawn, probably graphs of of how frank these different sorts of projects are to work on. You know Atlas is sort of lovely, and everything can be tested, and it has its glue issues, and it has, you know, these things go wrong, but but they can be fixed. And there's nice team of people.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: If you're working on a space saying, Well, 2 things are a problem, one, you've got all this stress about the fact that has to work. And the other thing is, your phone never stops ringing because the whole of Easter is ringing you up all the time and then inviting you for more review boards and doing more, you know. Build some materials and making sure you've done anything you can test, model measure
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: you have to. And so as modeling techniques get better. It's just more and more and more and more work. So you build something this size. And you know, if you ever printed out the paper it would fill this room.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: It's kind of fun.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: Gillian Wright had a lovely story about how she sent somebody to NASA to talk about the
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: multi pattern for putting Mary on onto the telescope. She sent an engineer.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: He was met by 30 engineers from NASA, none of whom could make a decision, and it took. I have no idea how long to decide on what the vaulting pattern for this. Okay, it's important, but it's relatively easy engineering. Everybody lives in fear, in fear that their bit might not work. So everything is checked so much that you know I could do. Yeah, stress stress related projects.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: You know, space is up there working for design new project managers who then want to undo all decisions that they've made for the 1st time. Yeah. But yeah.
STFC-RAL-CR03 R61: any more points. Not then let's configure again.